gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Introduction and miscellaneous that we haven't created categories for, yet
Post Reply
Huskte
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 8 times

gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Huskte »

Hello, does anyone know how locking mg1 and mg2 affects the gear ratio of the gs300h and gs450h?
Jacobsmess
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:30 pm
Has thanked: 226 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Jacobsmess »

As I understand (no first hand experience), locking the input shaft doesn't change the ratio. All it does is allow mg1 to spin and provide torque. The ratio stays the same (3.333... for GS300H and 1.9 and 3.9 for the GS450H). Max rpm is meant to be 10000 for GS450H and 14000 for the GS300H although this is on the OEM setup. Locking mg1 may reduce this because it is a bigger motor and may fly to bits at those speeds.
Huskte
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Huskte »

Ah interesting
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by rstevens81 »

I'm not sure your argument holds for the is300h, motor ...it 14k rpm is based on the top speed of the car, mg1 is actualy running slower than mg2 (mg2 being big motor, mg1 being the small locked one) which is the opposite problem to the gs450h unit.

The real problem is we are trying to read tea leaves here, based on the cost of these motors just have a go and see what happens, trying to hyperanalise things is bad...you got to rember in the old days people basically ran forklift motors at 150+volts if we were to extrapolate known data you would end up with a 30mph milk float.

I have brought a is300h motor for £150 delivered from flea bay and therefore consider them disposable for our purposes... I will have no issues in risking it just to see what happens 😁
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
Huskte
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Huskte »

rstevens81 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:20 pm I'm not sure your argument holds for the is300h, motor ...it 14k rpm is based on the top speed of the car, mg1 is actualy running slower than mg2 (mg2 being big motor, mg1 being the small locked one) which is the opposite problem to the gs450h unit.

The real problem is we are trying to read tea leaves here, based on the cost of these motors just have a go and see what happens, trying to hyperanalise things is bad...you got to rember in the old days people basically ran forklift motors at 150+volts if we were to extrapolate known data you would end up with a 30mph milk float.

I have brought a is300h motor for £150 delivered from flea bay and therefore consider them disposable for our purposes... I will have no issues in risking it just to see what happens 😁
Oh wow, do you mean you got the entire transmission for just 150?!?! They're all about 500 quid when i've looked. If that's actually what you mean please teach me your ebay searching ways
Jacobsmess
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:30 pm
Has thanked: 226 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Jacobsmess »

rstevens81 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:20 pm I'm not sure your argument holds for the is300h, motor ...it 14k rpm is based on the top speed of the car, mg1 is actualy running slower than mg2 (mg2 being big motor, mg1 being the small locked one) which is the opposite problem to the gs450h unit.

The real problem is we are trying to read tea leaves here, based on the cost of these motors just have a go and see what happens, trying to hyperanalise things is bad...you got to rember in the old days people basically ran forklift motors at 150+volts if we were to extrapolate known data you would end up with a 30mph milk float.

I have brought a is300h motor for £150 delivered from flea bay and therefore consider them disposable for our purposes... I will have no issues in risking it just to see what happens 😁
Apologies you're right I made a few errors, mg2 is longer, mg1 has a larger diameter. £150 is an absolute steal but as mentioned by Huskte I've only seen them at £400+ so far. Please do share your secrets (and or perform some testing for us at that price/disposability).

I cannot find it now but I had thought the 14000 rpm was an updated speed published by some review but I cannot find it anymore but yes working back from the top speed gives 14000 rpm.
Huskte
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Huskte »

Jacobsmess wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:48 am Apologies you're right I made a few errors, mg2 is longer, mg1 has a larger diameter. £150 is an absolute steal but as mentioned by Huskte I've only seen them at £400+ so far. Please do share your secrets (and or perform some testing for us at that price/disposability).

I cannot find it now but I had thought the 14000 rpm was an updated speed published by some review but I cannot find it anymore but yes working back from the top speed gives 14000 rpm.
Yes please do some testing. DATA is the thing we're really lacking at the moment with the 300h and vcu support (at least until Damien starts work on Der BlauBarsch then he'll fix both those issues). The main thing i want to know is whether or not the 300h is stable at those high rpms or if they're only intended to get to that speed for short bursts. Reason being that unless the 300h is comfortable at high rpm then I'm going to have problems at highway speeds.
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by rstevens81 »

Patience is the key for cheap stuff :), i will be putting it in a car at some point but im bogged down with mx5/outlander motor conversion at the moment.

Anyway the 14k rpm is based on toyota's own specs, put the numbers backwards youll get 14k rpm @125 mph
https://media.lexus.co.uk/wp-content/up ... chSpec.pdf

I very much doubt that the that wouldnt be able to do this sustained as it wouldnt be much use on the autobhan where 150+kph cruise is required...the main failure mode for a motor at high rpm the gyro forces splitting it apart, toyota would just make it strong enough as going to 125mph once then
exploding would look bad on them (you basically don't want the internal forces to change the material deformation from elastic deformation to plastic).

The mg1 2.6 ratio was an approximation from the tear down on the forum, but isnt actually that important as its going slower than mg2.
viewtopic.php?t=949&hilit=is300h

viewtopic.php?t=949&hilit=is300h&start=150 where i made a spreadsheet but note mg1 ratio is wrong for the gs450h it should be about 2.4 (1.25*1.9 ... the sam3x code uses a ratio of 5/4 mg1:mg2)

What power can be achieved at thouse speeds is a big question mark and can be only answered by testing, remember the main fun the acceleration (to useable speed) i.e. getting to 60mph.

I would think its incredibly unlikely that you would blow up the gearbox if you keep the speeds below the maximum used as ice.

if your after known good configuration the gs450h is the one to go for as its been dyno tested (by damian), but rember diff swaps have been around since the invention of the hot rod its just how much fab work youll happy with.

Also note shielded cables (pref original loom) is a must as a car is a very noisey em environment and bad signals due to wiring will cause alot of pain.
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
Huskte
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Huskte »

rstevens81 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:06 pm Patience is the key for cheap stuff :), i will be putting it in a car at some point but im bogged down with mx5/outlander motor conversion at the moment.

Anyway the 14k rpm is based on toyota's own specs, put the numbers backwards youll get 14k rpm @125 mph
https://media.lexus.co.uk/wp-content/up ... chSpec.pdf

I very much doubt that the that wouldnt be able to do this sustained as it wouldnt be much use on the autobhan where 150+kph cruise is required...the main failure mode for a motor at high rpm the gyro forces splitting it apart, toyota would just make it strong enough as going to 125mph once then
exploding would look bad on them (you basically don't want the internal forces to change the material deformation from elastic deformation to plastic).

The mg1 2.6 ratio was an approximation from the tear down on the forum, but isnt actually that important as its going slower than mg2.
viewtopic.php?t=949&hilit=is300h

viewtopic.php?t=949&hilit=is300h&start=150 where i made a spreadsheet but note mg1 ratio is wrong for the gs450h it should be about 2.4 (1.25*1.9 ... the sam3x code uses a ratio of 5/4 mg1:mg2)

What power can be achieved at thouse speeds is a big question mark and can be only answered by testing, remember the main fun the acceleration (to useable speed) i.e. getting to 60mph.

I would think its incredibly unlikely that you would blow up the gearbox if you keep the speeds below the maximum used as ice.

if your after known good configuration the gs450h is the one to go for as its been dyno tested (by damian), but rember diff swaps have been around since the invention of the hot rod its just how much fab work youll happy with.

Also note shielded cables (pref original loom) is a must as a car is a very noisey em environment and bad signals due to wiring will cause alot of pain.
I'll keep my eye on ebay then.

Makes sense, max speed at 14000 rpm and with the current tgr of 11:1 will be about 92mph (with 16 inch wheels) so I'll have no issues on British roads (definitely not the m25, as the average speed is about 2mph haha).

I have already used that spreadsheet before (what I used to calculate my max speed) so thanks for making it.

Both unluckily and luckily i won't be starting my conversion for a good few months at least, and hopefully by the time I do Damien has released his first video using the transmission and i can just follow in his footsteps, or in a more accurate and more automotive sense, draft behind him (because my work will be significantly easier than his haha)

Swapping diffs is a possibility but if the 300h is comfortable at 14000 rpm then there's pretty much no need for me to do so especially as if I did I'd just be leaving performance (i could use daily) on the table as there's a legal speed limit but there's no legal acceleration limit haha. plus it's always something I can do after completing my conversion if I want a bit more out of the top end.

mhm that's one problem with the cheaper ebay listings, none of them include any of the hv cables or resolver wires, but if I can find a wrecked ls/gs300h at a scrap yard I could go rip it out myself so that's an alternative to scouring ebay also means i could get all the parts at the same time with the same mileage.
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by rstevens81 »

Did get lucky with the hv cables, luckily the plugs for the resolver/shifter are cheap on Ali (see wiki), I highlighted the need for shielded cable as it has in the past been suspected to being a cause of some Comms failure on the help threads.
Another cheat is you can use is welding wire (can be un shielded on the DC runs) with the orange conduit ... For the AC runs you can buy copper braid with some heat shrink (plus the conduit)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtmdHv6
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
Huskte
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Huskte »

rstevens81 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:52 pm Did get lucky with the hv cables, luckily the plugs for the resolver/shifter are cheap on Ali (see wiki), I highlighted the need for shielded cable as it has in the past been suspected to being a cause of some Comms failure on the help threads.
Another cheat is you can use is welding wire (can be un shielded on the DC runs) with the orange conduit ... For the AC runs you can buy copper braid with some heat shrink (plus the conduit)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtmdHv6
wow that is lucky, ohh right cool, thanks. Oh btw how are you planning on locking them? because every example i've seen people use the core of the clutch disk thing but ofc that thing is sill expensive to buy just for that one part
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by rstevens81 »

Well £37 isn't going to break the bank 😁, and compared to the various conectors, midpack disconnect, contactors, fuses you will need it will only be a drop in the pond :(
Luckily for me my daily work horse is a Toyota auris (dullest car in world but does job of car with very reliability) and the clutch bite point is getting near the end so I might get unlucky and need to replace it and I suspect I can add another part number to the list if that happens.
Screenshot_20230607-063718~2.png
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
Huskte
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: gs400h and gs300h gear ratio locked and unlocked

Post by Huskte »

rstevens81 wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:44 am Well £37 isn't going to break the bank 😁, and compared to the various conectors, midpack disconnect, contactors, fuses you will need it will only be a drop in the pond :(
Luckily for me my daily work horse is a Toyota auris (dullest car in world but does job of car with very reliability) and the clutch bite point is getting near the end so I might get unlucky and need to replace it and I suspect I can add another part number to the list if that happens.
Screenshot_20230607-063718~2.png
Oh cool the only ones i could see were £100+. Yeah i get that, unfortunately it's really hard to figure out how much all that assorted smaller stuff is going to cost so hard to budget for it. Oh nice, silver linings haha.
Post Reply