Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

EvSteeve
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Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by EvSteeve »

Hi guys.

getting to the stage to implement the Chademo charging on my project.
Software wise the latest version on GitHub has Chademo 'implemented' using can 3
However after an afternoon of scouring the forum I cannot seem to find any discussion about the physical wiring and process of Chademo with the Zombie. (sorry if I've missed any but have searched all posts that seem relevant! )

So.. I Am using a leaf gen 2, motor, inverter & PDM with the zombie. I have connected up CAN 3 to both the zombie and the PDM from the Chademo charge port. However It is not clear how the rest of the required wiring should be implemented to me..

So Originally The Charge port pulls up pin 2 up to 12v Which is the signal to start charging and to get can bus to transmit battery parameters..
Then the VCU Grounds Pin 4 (permission signal) then pin 10 is grounded allowing charging to start.

Anyone already implemented this setup and have experienced how to wire the zombie to allow this process to happen?

Regards and TIA!
PaulHeystee
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by PaulHeystee »

Hi EvSteeve,
From the Leaf schematics I can see that the Chademo is fully connected to the PDM,
Please see attached print-out of that page.
The PDM is connected to the CAN bus (and other components)
If you have any questions, please let me know.
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output.pdf
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by paaa »

If you need a can log from can going into pdm during chademo let know and I'll dig it out
EvSteeve
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by EvSteeve »

Thanks for your replies,

Paulheystee, that schematic, is it for a gen1 leaf? It doesn't seem to match up with the pdm wiring I Have for my gen 2.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by EvSteeve »

Following my previous reply here is some supporting info..

attached are my pinouts for the pdm (Gen2) and also the pinout i'm using for my fast charge plug.
As you can see my pdm plug is missing pins which are in the schematics posted. but does have fast charge related pins.
Do you have the description of the pins on the schematics to help me try identify where they need to go on my system ? Regards!
Attachments
PDM PINOUT.png
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VWJoe
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by VWJoe »

EvSteeve wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:01 pm Following my previous reply here is some supporting info..

attached are my pinouts for the pdm (Gen2) and also the pinout i'm using for my fast charge plug.
As you can see my pdm plug is missing pins which are in the schematics posted. but does have fast charge related pins.
Do you have the description of the pins on the schematics to help me try identify where they need to go on my system ? Regards!
Hi EvSteeve,

I've attached a 2018 diagram of the relationship between the Chademo connector, the PDM and the VCM. You will see in the later models the VCM controls the start/stop lines. these are 12v off/on with some resistors. I'm sure someone will know the values.
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Description-of-the-CHAdeMO-connector-pinout-and-schematic 2.jpg
vehicle charging system.pdf
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Description-of-the-CHAdeMO-connector-pinout-and-schematic.jpg
EvSteeve
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by EvSteeve »

Brilliant, Thankyou so much for these, extremely helpful!

I have heard people have successfully had CHAdeMO working with the zombie, however what is not clear is weather the zombie is controlling the start/stop signals etc or if people are using a series of relays to implement this and just using the Zombie for the CAN bus control.

Regards
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by Bigpie »

I think damien is doing a video about chademo on zombie, I'll post here if/when it's done
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by Bigpie »

not specific to leaf pdm but another option
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by VWJoe »

Good to see Chademo working with Zombieverter, a big thank you to all involved in this.

Can't test the chademo at the moment as the system is not in the car, but just uploaded 1.11A , but could not get the AC charging working using Zombieverter and a leaf PDM, has anyone else had a similar problem?
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by EvSteeve »

Regarding CHAdeMO with the leaf pdm, Using Damien's video guide we wired up the zombie and the pdm accordingly, however we have come across some issues, The zombie side seems to be working, as when 12v is applied at p2 of the CHAdeMO plug, the zombie precharges and closes our systems contactors, and also activates 'GP out 3' grounding p4 at the CHAdeMO plug and goes into 'Charge' mode on the interface. However we do not seem to be getting any can messages at this point, Should the Can be initiated by the zombie or the CHAdeMO charger? Also, using a bench power supply we simulated plugging in CHAdeMO plug in (applied 12v to pin 2 and gnd to p10) and found that we have no voltage at p6 & p5, suggesting the CHAdeMO contactors in the pdm aren't closing.

Will keep investigating and post progress as and when we have any!

As for AC charging we have our system working fine, What issues are you experiencing? Is your zombie recognising the plug is being inserted? Damien has a very good guide on the wiki about ac charging using the leaf pdm & Zombie, perhaps worth checking out if you haven't already.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by royhen99 »

Does the PDM have a relay controlling the Chademo contactors? Assuming is does, then it would need to be enabled so that control is just from pin 2 and 10 of the Chademo connector.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by EvSteeve »

Yes, so on the pdm p8 is fast charge relay (+) and p24 is fast charge relay (-) We have connected p2 and p10 from the fast charge port, but as stated the contactor does not seem to be shutting. During the test we conducted no voltage was present at P5&6.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by VWJoe »

As for AC charging we have our system working fine, What issues are you experiencing? Is your zombie recognising the plug is being inserted? Damien has a very good guide on the wiki about ac charging using the leaf pdm & Zombie, perhaps worth checking out if you haven't already.
[/quote]

Hi,
On version 1.08A all is working fine, Using Ext_Digi to start the charging. Main contactors shut and relay in the PDM makes and AC charging commences. (I'm using Ext_Digi to start charging as I have found the auto method upset the next T15/ Starter starting process).

Uploaded 1.11A and without changing any settings and running the same process, the main contactors shut, but the PDM relay does not make, so charing does not start. Opmode reads Charging and Chgtyp reads AC.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by royhen99 »

EvSteeve wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:24 pm Yes, so on the pdm p8 is fast charge relay (+) and p24 is fast charge relay (-) We have connected p2 and p10 from the fast charge port, but as stated the contactor does not seem to be shutting. During the test we conducted no voltage was present at P5&6.
I've had at look at the Leaf wiring diagrams but they are not very useful as a lot of the pins do not have a description.
The only other thing that may be worth trying is connecting pin 7 of the chademo connector to 0V.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by catphish »

VWJoe wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:34 pm Hi,
On version 1.08A all is working fine, Using Ext_Digi to start the charging. Main contactors shut and relay in the PDM makes and AC charging commences. (I'm using Ext_Digi to start charging as I have found the auto method upset the next T15/ Starter starting process).

Uploaded 1.11A and without changing any settings and running the same process, the main contactors shut, but the PDM relay does not make, so charing does not start. Opmode reads Charging and Chgtyp reads AC.
Are you using a leaf Inverter, or just the PDM? If you use both, you may need this patch: https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32-vcu/pull/46
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by catphish »

royhen99 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:16 pm Does the PDM have a relay controlling the Chademo contactors? Assuming is does, then it would need to be enabled so that control is just from pin 2 and 10 of the Chademo connector.
The Chademo contactors are inside the PDM. I'm not yet sure whether charge sequence signal 1 + 2 will be enough to close them, or whether we need to send the PDM anything else to enable it.

Right now I'm having trouble with Zombie Chademo (not seeing any CAN data), I suspect this may be because of https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... f742622df3

Will retest as soon as possible.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by celeron55 »

The Zombie Chademo is designed completely separate from the PDM or other Leaf stuff, right? You will have to rewire the Chademo contactors directly to Zombie as well as rewiring any other Chademo signals going into the PDM, if you're using the Leaf harness.

I might not be up to date on this but I haven't heard about any PDM Chademo reverse engineering having gotten to a completed state.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by catphish »

celeron55 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:49 am The Zombie Chademo is designed completely separate from the PDM or other Leaf stuff, right? You will have to rewire the Chademo contactors directly to Zombie as well as rewiring any other Chademo signals going into the PDM, if you're using the Leaf harness.

I might not be up to date on this but I haven't heard about any PDM Chademo reverse engineering having gotten to a completed state.
You're correct. Zombie controls Chademo on its own. This is roughly how EvSteeve's Chademo is configured:
PXL_20230306_102519671.jpg
The Zombie will take care of all the negotiation, but my suspicion is that more work will be needed to persuade the PDM to chose its Chademo contactors.
Edit: I hadn't realised how simple the PDM is. The Chademo contactor coil pins are directly exposed, so just a matter of connecting them to SS1/SS2.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by royhen99 »

There is a relay ( F/S Chg Relay ) external to the PDM that provides 12V to the PDM during Chademo charging. I added the bold text to the 2nd digram to show the connections to the PDM. Looking at the pin out posted above ( post no. 5 ) this may be for a different version of the PDM, I think there was a change in about 2018.
FS_relay.png
Chad_PDM.png
Leaf_PDM_F23.png
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by celeron55 »

catphish wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:30 am Edit: I hadn't realised how simple the PDM is. The Chademo contactor coil pins are directly exposed, so just a matter of connecting them to SS1/SS2.
No, I don't think the PDM is that simple.

I've opened it and checked this but don't remember anymore so I'm not stating this as a fact, but I do definitely expect the PDM to have a transistor or relay inside preventing the closing of the Chademo contactors with only d1/d2 power being provided but rather the MCU must want to close the contactors also. The Chademo standard expects you to have such a transistor or relay, even while in this community it's rarely added.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by catphish »

celeron55 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:06 pm No, I don't think the PDM is that simple.

I've opened it and checked this but don't remember anymore so I'm not stating this as a fact, but I do definitely expect the PDM to have a transistor or relay inside preventing the closing of the Chademo contactors with only d1/d2 power being provided but rather the MCU must want to close the contactors also. The Chademo standard expects you to have such a transistor or relay, even while in this community it's rarely added.
For the V1 PDM, the contactors are directly exposed on the low voltage port (full schematic also attached):
Screenshot.png
I haven't confirmed that the V2 PDM is the same, but this document posted by EvSteeve implies that it is:
PDM PINOUT.png
He's connected C/C1 to pin 8 and C/C2 to pin 24. Will have to get CAN working and then see if this works.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by VWJoe »

catphish wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:56 am Are you using a leaf Inverter, or just the PDM? If you use both, you may need this patch: https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32-vcu/pull/46
Thanks for this, I will have to do a bit more investigating. It was working well on 1.08.
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by catphish »

VWJoe wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:43 pm It was working well on 1.08.
Yeah, it worked in 1.08, then broken in 1.09 by this commit:
https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... 6d23f8a043

I fixed it again, but my fix hasn't been merged yet:
https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... l/46/files
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Re: Chademo Leaf PDM & Zombieverter!

Post by VWJoe »

catphish wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:45 pm Yeah, it worked in 1.08, then broken in 1.09 by this commit:
https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... 6d23f8a043

I fixed it again, but my fix hasn't been merged yet:
https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... l/46/files
Thanks for this, I have not managed to encode the files into a .bin yet. Need to spend a bit more time on it which is lacking at the moment.
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