[DRIVING] VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf  [FINISHED]

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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by Ev8 »

Very impressed by the distances you cover, I’m to scared to go further than I can get to and back On a full charge! Maybe once I get my chademo installed
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Yes once you have learned to trust rapid charging it is easy.
I'm trying to stay below 600 km per day due to lack of battery cooling.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

m.art.y wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:24 pm This is kind of a known problem with Leafs, moisture gets into the sense pins at the back of the Chademo port, it usually starts working again when moisture is cleaned off the contacts, perhaps some sealant would help or other method to prevent water from getting in.

Regarding slow Type2 charging, it can be made faster if more than 10A is allowed but the wall socket has to be able to handle it. 😊
Thanks marty, what do these sense pins do? Is that what made it fault out so quickly?

The port is above the rear wheel but separated off by the wheel arch liner. Well I guess moisture can get in.

Actually I was happy about the 10A limit, especially at our holiday house the outlet was rather sketchy ;)
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by m.art.y »

johu wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:36 pm Thanks marty, what do these sense pins do? Is that what made it fault out so quickly?
Actually I was happy about the 10A limit, especially at our holiday house the outlet was rather sketchy ;)
It's the thin wires that exit the chademo port and go toward the car, seems they're not sealed very well there so perhaps adding some sealant to the back of the port where those wires exit would cure the problem. It happens to Nissan Leafs in heavy rain too. If there is moisture there charging station trips out immediately with an error code for 'moisture'.

There are granny cables with adjustable amperages too, i think these just vary resistance with a push of a button when you select amperage, they can range from 6 to 16A (older ones) and from 6 to 12A some newer ones. But you perhaps could just hack something up to allow more than 10A when your wall socket allows it 😊
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

I'm on another trip, currently 300 km away from home. More issues!
While driving I noticed motor temperature was surprisingly high. Since I'd installed a new firmware and played with the setting I suspected that to be the culprit. But then I checked the engine bay only to see the water pump wasn't working. Found a loose cable, thank god. But wait, the pump is still not running! It was both broken AND had a loose cable.
Finally decided to continue without the pump running and as long as no performance is demanded this works rather well. Of course water will be close to boiling after 100 km, but hey.

Ordered a new pump and it actually showed up the next day. Managed to swap it with just minor loss of fluid. Happy.
After a days driving I set the car to charge to 95% as we were planning a longer trip the next day. This morning I went down to preheat only to find very dim interior lights. The 12V battery was depleted.
I suspect that charging to 95% took the battery just a smidgin over 400V, enough for the Outlander DC/DC to shut down. Then the new pump that seems more powerful than the old one sucked the amps from the 12V battery for probably about 8 hours.

Found a 12V charger in the trunk of my sisters BMW and that fixed the problem for now. Two cells are rather swollen and I hope they hold the charge.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by Bratitude »

johu wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:56 pm
After a days driving I set the car to charge to 95% as we were planning a longer trip the next day. This morning I went down to preheat only to find very dim interior lights. The 12V battery was depleted.
I suspect that charging to 95% took the battery just a smidgin over 400V, enough for the Outlander DC/DC to shut down. Then the new pump that seems more powerful than the old one sucked the amps from the 12V battery for probably about 8 hours.
i just an into the same issue with the outlander dcdc! i set my tesla charger to cu off at 398v and get back to the car with the 12v battery at 5v :?

just updated the wiki
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by m.art.y »

Would it be possible to adjust the voltage divider in the outlander dcdc that it sees lower voltage than it actually is? I had similar problem with my dcdc except my dcdc was switching off at 330v as the lower end. With the help from Bexander I adjusted the voltage divider and dcdc worked down to just under 300v.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Bratitude wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:21 am i just an into the same issue with the outlander dcdc! i set my tesla charger to cu off at 398v and get back to the car with the 12v battery at 5v :?

just updated the wiki
Beware! In my Mazda i just discovered DCDC will randomly stop working. By this i mean it will stop providing CAN mesages and stop responding to +12V command. I had to manually disconnect DCDC connector to reset it. To rectify this i included a reset button on my VCU cover which will remove power for a short time as this seems to get DCDC to its senses.
Charger side however operated normaly on demand.

On a second thought i am thinking of providing my VCU with a relay to power the "enable" side of DCDC with a watchdog function to reset the power in case CAN report would be missing.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Yes same here! Not blaming it on the charger just yet before some additional tests. I just plugged in for charging and the DC/DC converter operated just intermittently. When "ignition" is on it runs reliably, very strange...
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

I just thought this over. Originally I had wired an additional 12V supply to the VCU that is energized when charging. The DC-DC enable signal forks off from this or the regular ignition 12V via a diode bridge.
Then I found the digital input wasn't reacting and the board was supplied with 5V (well 4.7V because Schottky diode) via the CHAdeMO board so I disconnected the extra 12V. That means that the DC-DC enable is no just supplied with what leaks back from the 5V regulator. Maybe 4V or so. No wonder this isn't reliable!

UPDATE: I had the DC-DC not working this morning. So I reconnected the 12V supply for the VCU and now it works as expected.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Today I was victim of my own code. I did some test driving in Touran which includes flashing new firmware from time to time.

So flashed firmware (wasn't parked in my own driveway, of course) and afterwards had no CAN comms, no parameters on wifi etc. Ok, no problem I thought I'll just flash again. Nothing, again nothing and again...

So towed the car back home. Flush coolant, take charger and aux inverter out, remove inverter and put it on the table.

When I opened it and powered it I found the alive LED blinking happily. WTF?

Tried again, no parameters via wifi. So plugged in a serial cable and restarted. What do I see?
Disabling terminal, type 'enableuart 0' to re-enable
So not sure what happened here, terminal is disabled when nodeid is anything other than 1 but apparently id had value 0.

In other words, instead of getting the inverter out I would have just needed to type "enableuart 0" into the custom command field. Maybe time to remove that feature, don't think it's being used.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by RetroZero »

Thanks for the heads up. Won't be doing any flashing then till you got the code sorted. 😉
Sorry to hear you had to dismantle so much for access... Will think about where permanent place of OI board will be in my Golf....
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by EV_Builder »

Maybe just a yellow message in your GUI with that option/status...
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Yeah well the GUI just gets no response which could be anything from no software to wrong baudrate, loose connector. Or a disabled terminal...
Maybe the ESP should record the boot message from the STM and display it somewhere.

Golden route would be combining your CAN bootloader with the UART one AND fit it into 4k :)
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

RetroZero wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:03 pm Thanks for the heads up. Won't be doing any flashing then till you got the code sorted. 😉
Sorry to hear you had to dismantle so much for access... Will think about where permanent place of OI board will be in my Golf....
With the Prius board it's easier as it sits outside the inverter. This sort of problem is unlikely for any "user" as software that is published wouldn't have that flaw.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Now since the inverter is out anyway I decided to upgrade it with the latest and greatest Leaf board that uses the ESP32 and mini mainboard.

Now I can auction off the original that I did virtually all FOC development on. Kurt Cobains guitar in terms of motor control. I'll become a millionaire.

EDIT: extra value for the hand soldered SMD and resolver amplifier heat sink made from a tea candle cup.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by whereswally606 »

on a DCDC side note, my completed stock outlander died at a rapid the other night. was maybe that the 12v was as old as the car 2014 year model (not confirmed). but ive replaced it now anyway with a bosch one of comparable spec. just needed to mod the gas relief adapter to the hose which was done using a garden sprinkler valve.

annoyingly RAC recovery couldnt reset the codes at the roadside, infact they couldnt even see them with their tablet. The mitsubshi garage cleared them with their mut3 se tool and laptop.

apparently the AA carry better gear and I may possible have avoided the tow if id gone with them but not 100% on this. Apparently snap on tools can clear the phev codes. The konnwei odb2 tool and torque app were as useful as the RAC tablet and phevwatchdog app was poor in this respect too. I've been told lauch from alibaba/express is good in this respect but im reluctant to spend any money in this regard without concrete proof that the device could get me out of a similar pickle.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by Zapatero »

That's meeeee, I'm on TV! I'm famous :lol: :P

Have fun in Sweden and i wish you all the best that it's better than you ever imagined :!:
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Another trip to Ulm to visit Zapatero. His GT86 VCU needed cruise control and other stuff ported over from the inverter now that he uses the Leaf stock logic board. Touran needed a strut bearing changed which turned out to be a rust battle. At 1 at night we were done :)

Anyway, the trip. Kasseler Berge kicked my economy to 220 Wh/km and heated the battery to 30°C or something. The first charge stop took it close to 50°C. The second charge stop already hit the 55°C limit and towards the end I was stuck with the 25 kW limit that kicks in when the two bricks are far apart temperature-wise. I needed 4 stops for just 400 km. Overall economy 186 Wh/km.

Now today we added a 120mm fan that blows over the rear brick. Remember the front brick is cooled quite well via the exhaust tunnel.

I cannot believe what a difference this makes. For one I only needed 2 stops today because sort of tailwind and Kassel being lower altitude than Ulm. Economy 163 Wh/km. Arrived at the first charger with just 23°C, charging with 70 kW peak took it to 36°C. At the second (and last!) charge stop the batteries had cooled back down to 32°C and I could charge at full speed and reached 45°C. Then drove all the way home and arrived here with 12% and battery cooled back down to 36°C. I think I will now no longer have rapid gate.

I also "fixed" the issue with the dodgy cell voltage measurement. Cells 89 and 90 were seemingly 150 mV apart but sometimes just 5 mV. Jumping around. Since it was not an option to take out the bricks I randomly started poking around the tap wires of said cells and found I could trigger the error. So now I just stuck isolation wool in there to stop the wires from wiggling. Problem gone :) Lets see for how long. It seems SoC is now a lot more accurate and I can dare taking it low.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Journey to London complete :) Drove 500 km on Monday (Kassel to Brügge) where I met Janosch of clipper.cab.
IMG_20230418_081628.jpg
Then we drove the remaining roughly 300 km yesterday and used the ferry to get over to the UK.
signal-2023-04-18-181020.jpeg
Finally arrived in London
IMG_20230418_152358.jpg
The trip went totally smooth apart from a non-starting charger in Dover that was irrelevant to the trip though.
First charge stop was just 20 minutes in Dortmund on a 100 kW CHAdeMO charger, then Venlo, then Antwerpen, about another 25 minutes each. Never charged to more than 70% to take advantage of high charge power. That strategy has only become possible through the battery fan.

AC charging in Brügge didn't go quite as smoothly, my only charge card that doesn't have a blocking time penalty didn't work, so after 4 hours we disconnected leaving the battery at around 50%. The Outlander charger isn't really powerful enough for public AC charging.

Last EU stop was 40 minutes in Dünkirchen where we went grocery shopping. Then another stop in Canterbury and that was it. 5 stops on 800 km :)
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

johu wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:51 pmNow today we added a 120mm fan that blows over the rear brick. Remember the front brick is cooled quite well via the exhaust tunnel. I cannot believe what a difference this makes.
Wait, you're able to fast charge without any liquid cooling?

What I've been hearing is, don't even attempt fast charging without active cooling, let alone only just a radiator, let alone air cooling.

You were crapping out with NO cooling, and, upgrading to a little computer fan was enough to hold 70kw fast charging?

This bodes well for me and for having a smaller pack I want to rapid charge now and then on trips.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by Zapatero »

My Hyundai Ioniq 2019 only has air cooled batteries and charges linear with 70Kwh up to almost 80% SoC.
Even on very warm days in summer the charging speed isn't any lower because of an insufficient cooling method.

I installed the computer fan with Johannes in my workshop and also showed him a real industrial fan that has way more power whilst being about the same size. I didn't believe that this small pc fan could make any difference. But obviousely it really does! I'd still add a more powerful fan just to make sure to maximize the cooling efficiency.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by janosch »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:40 am Wait, you're able to fast charge without any liquid cooling?
Most people do, Jamies VW doesn't cool the batteries, all Nissan Leafs don't cool the batteries (rapidgating after 3rd charge), we don't cool ours either.

What was interesting about Johannes setup is that they actually get cooler while driving at speed! Ours hold the temperature or get warmer. A simple air cooled setup makes a difference.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:40 am What I've been hearing is, don't even attempt fast charging without active cooling, let alone only just a radiator, let alone air cooling.
Would should I say. Much opinion, little practise ;)
MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:40 am You were crapping out with NO cooling, and, upgrading to a little computer fan was enough to hold 70kw fast charging?
Wouldn't say there was no cooling, the air stream from driving always hit the front battery brick while the rear one overheated. Now the rear one's got the fan and that has indeed fixed the issue.
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