Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

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olegil
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Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by olegil »

Hi
I have a very weird idea in mind, so I was hoping to find some dimensions of various parts of the PSD and the motor speed reducer, as well as the input shaft from the engine, sun gear etc.

Has anyone made any drawings which show some of these internal dimensions? Reluctant to go out and buy a P410 just for the initial sketch as they're not THAT cheap here.

My idea involves using MG1 for propulsion and MG2 for Power-TakeOff in a small farm tractor of Irish descent, which originally has a dual stage clutch, where half way pressing the clutch disengages the transmission but leaves the PTO engaged. Initially I will keep the clutch, but if it is at all possible then individual control of PTO and drive speeds would be awesome. For this, power from MG2 would need to flow through MG1, so I'm PROBABLY not gonna be able to do that while still keeping the planetary gearsets, but it would be fun to at least try. Optimal speed for the PTO input shaft is 1750 +0 / -250RPM while for the transmission it's 1750 +/- 500RPM, so PTO work really limits options for speed regulation. The transmission has steps of about 60% (pretty close to golden ratio), with an extra planetary for 4:1 lower range. +/- 60% in speed is a bit too much for my taste when I'm mowing. I'm used to it from the diesel version, but sure would love to drop that limitation in an electric version. Also, this is VERY low RPM compared to a car, so being able to use the planetaries would be nice.

The input shafts from clutch to transmission are 29 and 44 mm or nearest imperial equivalents, both 10 splines. Drive input shaft is hollow, spinning around the PTO input shaft.
I'm thinking maybe it's possible to cut the P410 ring gear in two, hold both pieces stationary and interface directly from MG1 planet carrier to 44mm transmission input shaft using a hollow coupler, and interface from a modified MG2 planet carrier (now no longer stationary) to the PTO input shaft through the center of MG1 and the first coupler.

I know this would mean tuning the stators to the resolvers from scratch as well as redoing both cooling and lubrication. But still, a man's allowed to dream. The slightly simplified version would be to just use the stators and rotors without the planetary gear reductions, but since that still needs all the cooling, lubrication and resolver tuning I figure why not go all in?


EDIT:
Apparently I had a brain-fart and mixed up which shafts do what. The inner, solid shaft of the transmission drives the wheels, while the outer, hollow one drives the PTO.
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EV_Builder
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Re: Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by EV_Builder »

I can imagine that there is a way to add an extra exit on the caseing. In a way you add bearings/alloy material and then exit the caseing...
(Motor bike sprockets and chain?).

From there you might be able to spin / drive the outer axle.
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olegil
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Re: Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by olegil »

EV_Builder wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:33 am I can imagine that there is a way to add an extra exit on the caseing. In a way you add bearings/alloy material and then exit the caseing...
(Motor bike sprockets and chain?).

From there you might be able to spin / drive the outer axle.
Not a fan of sprockets and chains, but trying to keep an open mind here. Struggling to see how that would actually help. You're thinking I attach sprocket to output of MG1, over to a countershaft and then back again? Quite an elaborate setup , honestly. And two sets of chains that now need tensioning. But wouldn't this make the oil leak out with the chain, meaning the whole setup now needs to be inside another case, with oil feeding back into the original case? Surely then I saved nothing?
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Re: Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by EV_Builder »

The reason i suggest is because I think it's simpler.
Replacing OEM shafts with hollow parts wouldn't make things reachable I guessed.

Adding billet material / bearings and welding a cover on it. Is reachable. Oil would be inside etc.

But there are more ways to reach a goal.
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Re: Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by mjc506 »

Two separate motors/inverters might be simpler to be honest.


EDIT: Actually, what about an Outlander front transaxle/inverter. MG1 is connected to the ICE 'input', MG2 to the differential. They're only connected to each other if a hydraulic operated clutch is activated. The inverter is driven by CAN, so an arduino with a CAN tranceiver would do the job...
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Re: Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by EV_Builder »

In that case you can connect an Leaf to the ICE input...
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Re: Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by mjc506 »

I was more thinking of use the ICE input for the PTO - MG1 will drive it quite happily. ~60kW apparently?
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Re: Internal dimensions of things in Prius transaxles

Post by olegil »

EV_Builder wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:53 am The reason i suggest is because I think it's simpler.
Replacing OEM shafts with hollow parts wouldn't make things reachable I guessed.

Adding billet material / bearings and welding a cover on it. Is reachable. Oil would be inside etc.

But there are more ways to reach a goal.
The point is that the OEM parts ARE hollow in both the Prius and the MF135 transmissions.

But that's still beside the point, my actual question was if anyone had any dimensions for the internal axles and gears and stuff in a Prius, preferably the P410
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