Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Topics concerning the Toyota and Lexus inverter drop in boards
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

There's no VCU. Unless that's what you're calling the controller.

The control board + Prius Gen 2 inverter spits out a 3 phase signal. You could presumably use it to turn any motor, including a leaf motor I presume.

But since you've got a Leaf stack, which has its own inverter, you'd be tossing away the inverter and just connecting straight up to the motor. Bit of a waste to kludge it like that when you have a purdy stack already.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by vin »

Ev8 wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:08 pm No, Prius gen2 controller, actually controls the inverter logic and intelligent gate drives, the leaf inverter can be controlled with just simple can commands
Yes, I have the whole stac including the charger, which I’ll also need to figure how to control. Anyways, That’s grate news, thanks guys, I’ll just need to find the necessary commands now.

Much appreciated.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Alright, after a 6 month break, I've forgotten how frustrated and burnt out I was troubleshooting this stupid inverter.

So that means it's time to try again.

Now with new features like "I found my oscilloscope but barely remember how to use it".

So, here's the output of the phase lines at the terminals on Damien's board, where the inverter wires connect to. I threw up a few combinations of ampnom and fslipspnt, but nothing changed the waveform. It's a dual-trace scope, so I'm on a random 2 of the 3 phases. They were both centered around zero, I just dragged them apart a bit to make sure I wasn't getting an echo and that it was in fact two in-phase signals right on top of each other:

Image

Vertical is 5v/cm and horizontal is 10uS.

I'm not sure what the waveform is supposed to be, this is just a pair of squarewaves. Far as I could tell no changes to fslipspnt (from 10 to 100 to 1000) noticeably changed the waveform. The pulsewidth didn't get narrower or broader or change in duty cycle, the phases always synched up with each other and were never phase shifted.

So... does that give any information? If so/If not, what next?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by johu »

set boost to 30000, ampnom to 100, fslipspnt to 1. Then you should see them getting wider and narrower
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

johu wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:38 pmset boost to 30000, ampnom to 100, fslipspnt to 1. Then you should see them getting wider and narrower
Okay...

Image

For some reason, only one phase was getting signal. Or I was hooking my scope up wrong.

What I got was a square waveform of consistent amplitude, where the whole waveform rode up and down at about 1 hz, while, when high, the duty cycle was low, and when low, the duty cycle was high.

https://i.imgur.com/MhVWisx.mp4

Reducing boost linearly decreased the amplitude of the rising and falling of the whole wave.

Increasing fslipspnt increased the frequency that the waveform rose and fell.

And, I think decreasing ampnom decreased the duty cycle of the squarewave closer and closer to a never-changing 50% on/off rather than 5% vs. 95% at either end.

... is that what it's supposed to do?

Also, motor still didn't budge. I even tried helping it move, saw nothing.

... but wait...

My battery wires to my "HV" car battery, are warm. And I disconnected it like, 10 minutes ago. Something was pulling from the HV line. Maybe not enough voltage, or current to spin a 100lb 3ph motor? They're just little 20g leads. Hmm.

What should I try next? What's a safe setting bundle to test the motor with for the first time?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Pete9008 »

Looks like you have your inputs set to AC coupled, needs to be DC to avoid the shifting levels. Alternatively you might be missing a ground connection?

Know nothing about the sine software so cant comment on the waveforms.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Pete9008 wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:53 pmLooks like you have your inputs set to AC coupled, needs to be DC to avoid the shifting levels.
Well, each of the two traces has a button to toggle between DC / AC. They're both set to AC. So, yes.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Pete9008 »

Not sure my scope has ever been set to AC, virtually always use DC so that I know where 0v is.

In that case the 1 waveform you have that is changing looks right. The other 2 should be doing similar things though.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by johu »

Looks alright to me. Why your motor is not moving I don't know. 30V should be plenty at that frequency
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Well..

That only took 3 years.

https://i.imgur.com/mPdlpqk.mp4

...

Not sure what I did to change it, or, if it would've worked the other day and maybe my wires were just too thin.

Things I did differently than 6 months ago:

1 - Grounded the case to the system ground.

2 - Cranked the boost up to 30,000 instead of default at 1700.

3 - Replaced the car battery and gator leads with an old car battery charger.

...

One other thing that crossed my mind... in the past I'd probably always left my linear power supply connected to the car battery, to keep it topped up. Maybe it's not isolated? https://www.circuitspecialists.com/benc ... 2001x.html

My 12v 5A power supply that I presumed was isolated... I can't find the square-within-a-square logo saying it's isolated. So, maybe the HV and system had a common ground before, and maybe that mattered?

In any case, Wheee.

The list of people I have to thank for putting up with my questions is.. long..

Thank you:

- Damien for designing the board and selling it to me near cost.
- Johannes for writing the software, and then troubleshooting it on and off for years.
- Scirocco for coming back to answer questions a bunch of times, and digging through Toyota documentation for me.
- Johnspark for helping pick components
- Rikohm and Doobeedoobeedo for walking my through ST-LINK.
- Arber for walking me through the whole ESP8266 and Arduino installs and troubleshooting especially
- Kiwifiat for helping me understand the bootloader
- Konstantin for noticing my mistakes in my diagrams a year later and correcting them
- mjc506 for troubleshooting me every day for a couple months on my second round of attempts
- Isaac for using his own hardware as a testbench to mimic my tests and verify them
- Pete for troubleshooting with me having only a multimeter
- EV8 for helping me sort out the grounds

That's 13 people, any of which who didn't help when they did, would not have gotten me to a spinning motor. Heck most of those people spent more time writing out instructions for me than it would've taken them to build the entire project themselves. I don't want to count the hours everyone must've put in for my benefit, but, it's embarrassingly a lot.

It really does take a village to raise a child.

...

Next up I guess clean up my storage unit, move the inverter down there and see if the big forklift motor I picked up 4 years ago actually works. So far just tested with the 100lb pump motor, not the 260lb traction motor.

And, I guess it's time to figure out the circuit for the voltage shifting on the current sensors and order some parts.

Then I'm going to use the big motor and an angle grinder as a lathe to machine the coupler I cast two years ago.

Thanks again everyone!
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by RetroZero »

Bravo 👏. So happy you got there with huge persevering. 👍👍
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Ev8 »

Well done! About time! Lol but in all seriousness I understand how frustrating it feels trying to figure out what other people seem to take for granted. Are you still dead set on using cast zinc as a coupler? Interested to see how that turns out
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Ev8 wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:52 amAre you still dead set on using cast zinc as a coupler? Interested to see how that turns out
Offtopic. I'll post in my build thread.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by mjc506 »

Woohoo! Glad you got it running :)
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Pete9008 »

Great result! :D
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by PrecisionAnalytic »

tkelly2784 wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:05 am Hi everyone, this is my first post

Has anyone ever made a TIG welder out of one of these?
I was planning to make my first post as a separate question regarding if anyone has made either a, or like I have this vision to focus on, inverter for synchronous or asynchronous generator inverter, inverter welder or inverter plasma cutter using a Prius Gen 3 inverter-converter and maybe stock controller assembly?

I was thinking the inverter module for either a single engine, or multiple engines, running multiple rectified 120-240VAC single phase generators input into the inverter might be a way to create a clean 3-phase pure sine wave 120, 208, 240, 480, etc. VAC output. Seems like would clean up the signal from the synchronous generators nicely and allow for more cost effectively found generators to be ganged together to create a larger 10KW or more power supply source.

Is there a feedback loop to keep a stable voltage output?

Wondering what the performance capabilities are using the stock boards as well as if using whatever is better recommended in regards to the openverter or other designs?

Also, what the limitations are?

Seems logical a plasma cutter could be made, though I'm not as confident in regards to the lower voltage specifications for a welder with Constant Voltage (CV) (~24-80VDC) and/or Constant Current (CC) (~50-300A) options, frequency control (20-400Hz), waveform control (SPWM, Square and Sawtooth maybe) along with for the Square waveform a DC offset so can have balance control to ratio the DC Electrode Positive (DCEP) to DC Electrode Negative (DCEN) ratio for aluminum welding as I can use for some cast aluminum and other aluminum repairs and projects.

Actually, this later balance control for aluminum welding need is what led me down this rabbit whole of like; "hey, I own a gen 3 prius... why not use parts for that to make so I have some backup parts while at it?"

Then I found cost effective CVT's not far away and 50% off sales or not on sale prices at not far away salvage yards that amazed me the parts can be found so cost effectively. Talking to everyone... no one needs since they last forever seems. I'm still amazed to this day 20KW brushless motor generators can be found for what they still sell at pricing as well as the related inverter-converter and controller. Wild and great to find resources that are taming these potential cost effective resources. That also led me to thinking I can find for making an engine welder more cost effectively using either older synchronous generators that can be found for around $100 or less or both or one of the CVT MG's which can be found for under $100 to power with like an 18HP V or opposed twin small engine.

Anyways, looks like I have a lot to read in regards to find the specifications for all the terminals and pinouts. Is there a best concise source to find the range of all the specifications or do I need to hunt around?

Seems the Prius Gen 2 may be more modularized inside the case and not as integrated with the aluminum case like the Gen 3 design maybe? Is that true?

Wondering if that's why there is more the preference to use or if some other use situation?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by PrecisionAnalytic »

arber333 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:53 am Yes well i was trying to make more permanent solution. Maybe to use it also to drain and test cells. If i would have a stable load i could just measure time to empty and calculate exact capacity for tested cells. However i will search for carbon resistor load also...

Hm... What about 12V PTC resistance heaters :). I would have to have a lot of 500W ones but in the end i think i will need something of 5kW value.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Incubator-PT ... 2745199943
Residential Electric Water Heater maybe that's like 3000-4000W'ish if you need? Maybe a oil based portable heater that's more like 1000W'ish?

I'm not sure the loads you're dealing with... smaller stove top oven elements maybe or even sections of the elements custom made to need if you're need multiple a DIY rotary switch? With this later design... very carefully planned and enclosed so no fire hazard.

On another note... this thread looks like an awesome read. Starting to make me want to get some Gen 2 inverter-converter assemblies to practice with before I jump into the Gen3's maybe? Grab a CVT while at it?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

So, I go to power up my inverter, hooked up to the big 260 lb motor.

I'm even all fancy and use proper terminal blocks and the right Toyota power cables and stuff.

My BluePill LEDs are really dim. My 12v 5a power supply is reading 6 volts. I disconnect the circuit, it's 12v again. I leave it connected and try to find out why the wifi's not coming on. I can smell hot wires. Warm ones anyways.

Whelp, something is bogging down my power supply.

I start disconnecting things to see when the voltage goes back to normal. Disconnecting i9 fixes it. That's the 12v DC power supply to the inverter.

I haven't even connected any HVDC yet (was going to start with a separate 12v power source). Haven't played with any settings on the controller.

... alright, is the inverter supposed to be drawing more than 5 amps on the system bus? I didn't think so.

... I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas. What would make my inverter hog down the 12v power? I haven't even logged into the wifi or told the circuit to start yet...
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Pete9008 »

Really sorry to hear that :(

Are you using the same power supply as before when you had it running?

Switch mode supplies can be a bit funny to power on. Essentially one that normally takes 2.5A at 12v (30W) will try to power up at lower voltages too, if it starts at 6V it will try to pull 5A to maintain the same 30W. When you add to that the burst of power needed at start up to charge caps they can really need quite a big surge of current. A 12V battery with a fuse won't have any trouble supplying this but a current limited bench power supply can get stuck in the low voltage high current mode and the board under test never boot properly. I've lost count of the number of newly designed boards that I've nervously powered up for the first time, with an overly low current limit set to be on safe side, only to have them current limit. It's normally then a case of checking everything to make sure nothing is getting hot and if not turning up the wick and hoping for the best. The trouble is that if there is a real problem this can cause something to go pop rather than just get hot :(

I'd suggest that you go over everything twice to make sure you can't see anything wrong and if not try powering it from a 12V battery with an inline fuse, say 2A-5A?. You may find it then powers up fine, on the other hand ...
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Pete9008 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:53 amAre you using the same power supply as before when you had it running?
Honestly, I don't remember.

Either it's the same SMPS, or, I was using a 12v from a gator clips into 3s of a 5s Dewalt battery 5 months ago.
I'd suggest that you go over everything twice to make sure you can't see anything wrong and if not try powering it from a 12V battery with an inline fuse, say 2A-5A?.
Pfft, fuse smooze. That's what wires are for. Normally I'd have used a 12v headlight bulb in series but I didn't have one in the room.

I should have mentioned, I tried both. The SMPS was yanked down from 12v to 6v. The Dewalt battery was pulled down to 3.5v from 12.05v.

I don't know in what world a fully charged Dewalt is capable of less power than the 5A SMPS, that Dewalt should be good for like, 30+A, but its voltage sagged more than the power brick did.

It was 3am, but I went over everything:

- Triple-checked documents on the i9 connector, that Black/White was GND and Blue was 12+. And that that's where I was plugging them in.

- Visually inspected that Black/White went to a black wire and the Blue went to a red wire on the inverter side, even though the plug only fits one way, even though I never unplugged the i9 plug.

- Made sure I had the correct blue wire, not the skinny one that goes to the case switch.

- Checked the voltage right at the power rail, just in case it was a gator wire that was frayed and causing the voltage drop. No change.

- Nothing other than system power got unplugged when I moved it to the storage room, the control board stayed as-is since the day it last worked, didn't disconnect any of the signal wires.

- Checked all other unused random wires from the inverter wiring harness in case they were touching each other.

- Checked that the Start wire was disconnected, so that the controller wasn't immediately trying to tell the inverter to do something.

- Lifted up the control board and looked underneath it in case there were bits of wire or a screw from when I built the shelving that rolled under there. Nope.

- Unplugged the two motorbike throttles from the controller. Even though they have been plugged in and unchanged for a year. Wasn't at the point where I was using them yet anyways.

- Unplugged the HVDC Prius cables (which were never yet connected to power), just in case they ... I dunno, just in case.

- Unplugged the Prius motor phase wires, just in case... was running out of ideas of things to disconnect. They were connected to the motor most of this time, but they were something new I'd done so out they went.

- Unplugged the power to the i9 Black/white and Blue wires (system power to the inverter), and that's what made the voltage snap back to reality and the controller LEDs actually light up.

...

So from that I conclude the control board is probably okay, probably not fried, since it was only getting suffocated from the power sag of the inverter (though, there's 6 other wires that connect to the inverter, not out of the woods yet). But I didn't actually test it or the wifi because I was burnt out and didn't trust my thinking anymore.

I guess I could test resistance across the i9 connector and see if the inverter power rail is straight up shorted somehow, I'll do that next.

Not even really sure what to test next. Why would the inverter's system power be pulling 4+ (10+?) amps?

I do have an entire spare inverter, but, just in case the control board fried the first one, I'd rather not swap it unless/until I figure out what's causing the power draw.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Pete9008 »

The Dewalt battery test pretty much rules out any switch mode supply start up issues.

You've already checked pretty much everything I can think of, only other thought is the DC to DC converter, it's not doing anything is it (unlikely I know)?

Can you try powering up (or belling out) both inverters separately to the OI control board? No risk of damaging the control board that way and it will tell you whether they are behaving differently or if it is just the one that pulls the high current?

Sorry I can't be more help. :(
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by johu »

Once up and running the Prius inverter should draw 1A@12V. Never had an issue starting it up with my lab supply limited at 3A or so. 5A does not sound healthy at all. Something must heat up fast, maybe you can find out what.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Minor success?:

- Re-tested continuity on the blue wire (12+), just to be extra-sure it's the right one. Good.

- Checked continuity between GND and 12+. Open circuit. Good.

- Unplugged the i10 32-pin inverter plug. Unplugged the case alarm switch. Put 12v across the inverter's ground and 12+ wires... current spike sags the power supply down to 7v and holds it there.

- Unplugged i9 connector. No wiring harness of anything connected. Turned the inverter upside down and shook it everywhere. Didn't see any bolts, wire pieces, or anything else fall out. Looks sparkling clean inside. Didn't hear anything rattling around. Hrmph.

- Jabbed gator clips directly to the inverter's Red and Black wires, still no wiring harness at all, just in case harness has some kind of short or some other thing going on with the control board. Just inverter, with system 12+ and GND to the inverter's i9. Still voltage sag, i9 connector smells a bit funny maybe.

Well crap, so, just powering up the inverter itself... fried.

What could possibly have fried the inverter, but, meanwhile not fried it physically and left it with a short or anything (because it's showing open circuit across them)?

...

- Pondering if I'm crazy, leave the shop, pull out my other inverter, feed it 12v and GND across the i9... voltage holds steady at 12v and only draws 800mA. Well, okay, that's good I suppose. It's different behavior than the other one, and maybe not destroyed... yet.

So, looks like I somehow blew up my first inverter... from the system bus. Stupid fragile Toyotas.

I can haul my backup inverter down to the shop and swap it out, but, catastrophic failures of unknown origins with the exact same setup as when it was working, frighten me. I kinda lucked out finding these two, I doubt I'll find a third :(

Any ideas what I might've done to fry an inverter?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Pete9008 »

Sort of good news!

No idea but old style battery chargers can be a bit crude and don't make good power supplies. Possible it put a spike on the supply?

I only tend to use them in parallel with a 12V battery, the battery soaks up any spikes, holds the voltage stable and supplies current bursts and the charger just keeps it topped up.

Edit - one other possibility. I have a linear supply similar to yours, it is isolated if you don't link to the green socket but does then put 120V AC ripple on the 0v (black socket) relative to mains earth. Its only uA leakage but still enough to kill electronics if it ends up across an unprotected IC pin (don't ask how I know this!). I always have a shorting link between the black and green sockets now (although you do lose the isolation by doing this).
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Whelp... made no changes aside from swapping the inverter...

https://i.imgur.com/JmPzhQ7.mp4

Looks like she's sucking 30 amps just to turn at 1hz at ~12v, but, spin she does.

*checks dates*

September 4th, 2018. Over 4.5 years from the day I rescued her from her forklift, to today when I found out that, in fact, she's not burnt out (I suppose on at least 2 phases) and does spin when ordered to.

Image

Image

Image

Image

My entire project was based around "Hey, maybe I'll build an electric car, I can get that motor for free. Oh, damnit... it's AC motor. I don't know anything about that. Oh well, I've spent this long on it, might as well take it home." Then I bought a car. Then I bought this board from Damien. And now it's finally spinning.

Thanks everyone for your patience.

...

Okay enough sentimentality. Momentum!

Next up, Current Sensors.

For an ACIM running SINE software, this is just informational, or, I suppose, you'd want to program current limits into the parameters.

On this board were never designed right (I think Damien baked them in on a hunch before he had a chance to look into them). Johannes fixed them when he made his Gen 2 kit, but, it's black magic enough to me looking at the two designs to interpret how to make it work.

This thread has has the topic come up like, 4 times, but never with any conclusivity, always a description or a "take this and them modify it to do that", and, never in a way anyone who didn't already know how to do it could follow instructions on.

Dilbert, earlier, said: "they are bipolar centered at zero volts, where as the STM32 add will want them at vcc/2 (or close to this)."

And Damien said at 200A they swung about 7.5v in either direction, 25mv per amp.

Arber writes up a bit in this post and its followup, (and actually the whole rest of that page seems to elaborate), and I understand just enough to not confidently know what to do: viewtopic.php?p=9031#p9031

"the gen2 current sensors are 15Vpp so you would need to change R2 and R4 in the daycounter schematic to 22k and it would be preferable to use a 1.65V reference. Cheapest option is to use a 3.3V reference followed by a precision 50:50 resistor divider as 1.65V references seem ridiculously expensive." ... I could copy that but I'd probably make at least 2 or 3 misinterpretations along the way.

Perhaps it's easiest just to copy what Johannes later did...

Damien's Prius Gen 2 Schematic: https://github.com/damienmaguire/Prius- ... ematic.pdf

Image

Johannes' Prius Gen 2 Schematic: https://github.com/jsphuebner/inverter- ... 2-v1.0.pdf

Image

...

So, looks like just a few jellybean parts and an MCP602 Op Amp, or, dual op amp, which, I very loosely understand the purpose of (op amps), and not the circuit at all... it's something about centering the voltage around a certain point instead of a certain other point, blah blah... but if I just order those parts, toss 'em on a perf board, and cut the existing traces from the Blue Pill and the terminal and insert Johanne's circuit instead of Damien's, it'll presumably work?
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