330e Hybrid Transmission

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
andrewjenkins34
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330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

So I've posted in a few places and seem to have unknowingly broken etiquette. It seems this might be the best place to post updates.

I recently purchased a 330e Hybrid Transmission and I would like to put it in my 99 BMW 328i as a functioning hybrid. Along with the transmission, I purchased a Prius Gen 3 inverter, an HTG GCU to control the gear changes (I'm too much of a noob to reverse engineer the messaging for the OE shifting), and a Zombieverter.
I seem to have gotten it in my head somehow that the Zombie could run an unknown motor, silly me. So I've ordered a Prius board from Damien and am currently waiting on the mail.

In the meantime I was able to have the components placed onto the Zombie but managed to swap a LIN transceiver with a CAN transceiver and fried the LIN. The exact replacement was not available so I used an alternate. Not sure that I'll ever need it in my project but it's there.

Once I got everything sorted I was able to confirm that the Zombie is doing what it's supposed to do. Lot's of fun watching the throttle plot a graph on both channels. Managed to do the same with the GCU as it has it's own live data stream. Also got the ISA shunt initialized and reading udc where it's supposed to.

Thanks to funds going to other areas, I do not have a test battery or a bench power supply. Instead, I'm using a bridge rectifier to take the 110v ac from the wall and convert to dc. This measures 112v dc at the contactor and then jumps to 168v once the contactor closes. I'm using an OMRON G9EJ-1 for the pre-charge relay which directs current through a 120v 100w bulb and then through a 25ohm 50w resistor. I'm also using a Tyco Kilovac EV200 contactor on the positive side. The shunt is connected to the negative side going back into the rectifier.

The transmission has proven to be another full project. Since I'm not using the factory TCU, it needs to be removed from the mechatronics unit and then jumper wires soldered in place. Fortunately this is a fairly common transmission swap for the non-hybrid versions so there is a PCB that can be soldered in place. Once that was done and confirmed continuity and no shorts, the GCU had to be wired up and a valve test performed - more fun graphs!

Current state of affairs is that I'm waiting for the Prius board and working with HTG to provide a baseline map for the transmission. Their input requirements are RPM, Pedal Position, and Throttle Position (may be able to duplicate pedal position here), and they said torque calculation would help. They raised an eyebrow when I said it wasn't going into any car specifically at the moment.

CAN communication is still very new to me but the GCU does have that ability and I know the Zombie does as well. I would like to eventually have the Zombie talk to the GCU over CAN and send the necessary information.

I also managed to damage the motor temp sensor when I was checking resistance values (overheated) so I found that it's a very common BMW coolant temperature sensor, part number 13627580635. If anyone has a datasheet that would be helpful as well.

Another challenge down the road is going to be the auxiliary oil pump that is unique to the hybrid transmissions. It gets power and ground from a connection on the case and there is 1 wire going into the pump for communication. Not sure if it's 1-wire CAN but that seems to be the most likely scenario. I found the pad on the mechatronics that has continuity but it is not included in the PCB used for the GCU. Fortunately it's an auxiliary pump and the main pump is chain driven by the electric motor so I should be able to push that problem down the road.

Once I have all those little hurdles conquered I'll need to figure out how the separator clutch is operated. I have a hunch that it's controlled by the TCC solenoid but won't be able to test any of that until later on either. The GCU has a clutch by wire feature and I'd like to operate the separator clutch in this manner.

I would certainly appreciate any input you all may have along the way as most of you are MUCH smarter than I. I am admittedly new to EV's and have jumped into the deep end of the pool but I'm the type that learns by doing.
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Isaac96
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by Isaac96 »

Just want to say: this looks really cool!

It looks like that's just a standard ZF 8-speed auto with a motor cartridge on the front?

Where does the motor power go? Is it just straight to the transmission input shaft?
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

Thanks Isaac!

Yes, just a typical 8hp75 with an electric motor where the torque converter used to be. The input shaft is divided in 2. ICE power goes through a dual mass flywheel to the transmission input and then through a separating clutch. The separating clutch is integrated into the housing of the motor which then provides power directly to the gearset. The separating clutch is normally open. You can see the clutch discs and how they spline to the vibration dampener in my first picture.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by Boxster EV »

That does look cool. In OE application I have a feeling those boxes have a limited e top speed of about 70mph. It’ll be interesting to learn how they behave being pushed harder.
Porsche 986 powered by a Tesla large drive unit. Backwards. Build documented here and Instagram @tesla_porsche here.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

I think it's more of a load thing. The cars they're in are HEAVY and it's only rated at I think 55kw continuous and 85kw max. It's still an 8 speed box and the motor has a rev limit of 7200rpm I think.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

Had some time to kill so I thought I might start looking at where to put the inverter if it were to go in my BMW. I thought it would fit well sitting on top of the 12v battery with a HV battery box where the spare tire is. Anybody have dimensions of the BMW PHEV modules at hand? I'd like to cut out the floor and mount 6 of them from a 530e or 730e so that I can put the normal carpet back in.

If the junction box can be kept small enough it might make sense to mount it right next to the inverter. Whatever charger I end up using might work well on the driver's side of the trunk.

I thought it also might make sense to have the motor cables out of the way toward the exterior of the car as well and then run along the driveshaft tunnel toward the front of the car.

How are people connecting inertia switches or other safety devices in case of an accident?

I also have the radiator from a Prius that looks like it might fit behind the bumper cover so that I don't have to run coolant lines from the front of the car.
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andrewjenkins34
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

No high voltage battery or power supply? No problem.

I got this idea from a Nissan Leaf bench test video so I took it a step further (or backwards). I recognize this is not considered safe but I haven't electrocuted myself yet...

For the first test I cut the end off a 2 prong extension cord and attached it to one of those inexpensive bridge rectifiers with some spade terminals and then ran the positive DC to my contactor and the negative to the ISA shunt. Precharge and contactor are controlled by the Zombieverter. I have a 120v 100w light bulb and a 25 ohm 50 watt resistor on the pre-charge circuit. Once precharge was done I measured 168v dc at the inverter from 110v single phase ac in the wall. I also have a 1k Ohm 50w resistor on the discharge circuit controlled by a NC relay.

I know the motor in this transmission wants to have somewhere near 400v to be happiest so I set out to make that happen as inexpensively as I could. (Read mad scientist)
240v ac is easy enough with a new outlet but that was too much work so I found a 100 amp 2 pole breaker to add to my existing breaker box. The main breaker is 150 amp and is located outside the house and my breaker box is in the garage. I've connected one end of a Prius battery cable to the 100 amp breaker and the other to a new rectifier I found that is rated for 1600v and 200A. Upped the precharge to 50 ohm plus the bulb and it takes about 3 seconds before the main contactor closes. Discharge takes about 3 seconds as well, all controlled by the Zombieverter. Presto changeo, 344v DC measured at the inverter.

My contactor is a Kilovac EV200 and I'm using a G9EJ-1 relay for the precharge. I thought this was a neat option because it's a standard automotive relay that's rated to switch 400V and 15A and it only cost about $33. I couldn't find the same relay in an NC or SPDT to control discharge so I ordered 2 Gigavac GV200's for positive and negative contactors, the P115 Minitactor for precharge, and the PNC113 Minitactor for discharge. Once they arrive I'll put together a HV box that I can close up and keep all the electrons inside.

Please let me know what you think.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

I've been trying to figure out how to use an unknown temperature sensor (BMW 13627580635) and I think I made some progress today.

I found an Arduino sketch that shows adc, voltage, temp, and resistance in the serial monitor although adc value doesn't seem right.

I'm not sure how to take the data from the serial monitor and save it to a file though.

I warmed a cup of water in the microwave, put the sensor in and started running the sketch. It was taking too long for the temp to drop so I added ice cubes to speed it along. Temperature was checked periodically with an ir thermometer to make sure it was consistent. The B value is not calculated since I don't have a data sheet and the math I found to calculate it doesn't make sense to me yet.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Great project so far. Intrigued by that gearbox.

Dimensions of the BMW modules are all over in the thread on those if you still need them. Not at my laptop or I'd copy and paste.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

Thank you, I found what I needed for the modules. I've enjoyed following the progress on your Z3.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

And we have blinking lights! I love blinking lights! Thank you Damien for the Prius board and for all the work you do.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by HawkHP+ »

Andrewjenkin34, That is an awesome project. I have a 4xE( ZF 8HP75PH ) Tranny to open mine up to reverse it, got some questions for you if you don't mind me asking. How many solenoids are there total? I believe there should be extras to control the input shaft clutches ( K0) ? How much of the circuit different just for the 8 speeds gear? how about the electric oil pump that build in, you will have to relay on that throughout the EV operation? is that sufficient? or the electric motor will drive the gear pump?

What is your setup on the encoder ? utilizing original position sensor?
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by SuperV8 »

Boxster EV wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:14 am That does look cool. In OE application I have a feeling those boxes have a limited e top speed of about 70mph. It’ll be interesting to learn how they behave being pushed harder.
We have an 330e at work with something like 240bhp as standard. They remap to something like 400bhp! and I think a lot of that must come from the motor as the standard 320i same 2.0 petrol turbo engine doesn't respond anywhere near that increase.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

HawkHP+ wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:55 pm How many solenoids are there total? I believe there should be extras to control the input shaft clutches ( K0) ? How much of the circuit different just for the 8 speeds gear? how about the electric oil pump that build in, you will have to relay on that throughout the EV operation? is that sufficient? or the electric motor will drive the gear pump?

What is your setup on the encoder ? utilizing original position sensor?
The Mechatronics looks to be the same as any 8hp. The differences are in the TCU and mine was damaged when replacing it with the RyuTech PCB which allows external control of the mechatronics. K0 appears to be operated by the TCC but I've not had the motor spinning yet to be able to start testing how it works. The electric motor uses a chain gear to drive the mechanical oil pump but the secondary oil pump is controlled by a single wire and I've not been able to figure out how to control it yet (canbus or linbus or something else). The plan at this point is to bypass it and rely on the mechanical pump but control of the aux pump would make operation much easier.
Like I mentioned in my PM to you, I damaged my prius board before I had an opportunity to get the motor spinning but I plan to use the factory resolver.

Thanks again for your interest! The project has stalled, but only temporarily.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

It works!!!

No pictures tonight but I got it to turn. Got my new Prius board from Damien and realized some mistakes I made last time around.

Followed all the steps for the first run, hit enter, and then there was a loud clunk and the output shaft started to turn. It ran for about 3 seconds and then blew my breaker. I don't have a HV battery or a bench power supply so I ran an extension cord through a rectifier and the wall outlet is on a 10 amp breaker.
Since I knew it worked, I swapped over to the 220v (100 amp breaker) through the rectifier and have about 334v at the inverter. Followed the same process and I get a much smaller click and then an overcurrent error. I'm using a Zombieverter to control precharge.

Any suggestions to address the overcurrent error? Figured I'd move on to FOC tuning and see what else I can break.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

Struggling with resolver feedback. I know which wire pair is the exciter and the other 2 are sin/cos but I can't get any meaningful feedback, just noise at either 0 or 365 degrees. When i ran the motor in open loop, the output shaft was turning so i assumed the rotor would turn when i manually spin the output shaft which would give me something on the plot but no. Also not positive how many pole pairs. Trying to avoid taking this apart if I don't have to but it's looking more likely.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

5 months since I looked at this thing and I'm finally making some progress.
Found out the ribbon cable I had connecting the idc connector to the stock prius external plug was bad. This caused me so many headaches!
Removed it and just running a bunch of jumper wires for now.

Any insight for finding the number of pole pairs on a resolver? The angle plot I'm getting is close, but still not quite right.

Motor shakes a little when applying manual id in FOC but no movement.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Can't help you on pole pairs, but on the shaking - is it perhaps the phases that need swapping around? This threw me once. Thought it was the resolver and actually it was the phase connections.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

Thanks for the feedback.
Unsuccessful finding pole pairs of the resolver but I read somewhere that resolver pole pairs typically match motor pole pairs and I have 8 motor pole pairs. Used an led connected to motor windings to count the pulses through a full rotation which gave me motor pole pairs.
I tried the same thing with the resolver but couldn't get the led to pulse. Either way, I tried it with 8 and it spins.

I was able to get the motor spinning in FOC using manual id and I think I found the correct syncofs. Motor responds to throttle input as well but when I change to sine the angle jumps all over the place so I still don't have the right resolver settings. Instant overcurrent with any throttle input.

Thought I'd try swapping the resolver connections with no hv while in sine to see if I can find a setting where the angle reads constant then go back to foc and retest.

When in foc, the angle reads constant by the way.

Also have an intermittent hicuroffs2 error that is frustrating progress.

In the meantime, I'm also trying to get the transmission controller setup and I need to send RPM and Throttle position over CAN to the GCU. I could really use some help in how to transmit those. The GCU has a built in can sniffer as well.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

These are the 4 plots I get using 8 pole pairs.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by Ev8 »

Why are you trying to run what appears to be an ipmsm motor with the sine firmware?
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

Because I'm learning along the way and didn't know that I shouldn't. Thank you for clarifying.
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by Ev8 »

Ahh ok, yes you’ll be needing FOC sine is for induction motors, grab the latest foc build it’s a big improvement over previous versions
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by Ev8 »

Also when in foc the resolver exciter is only active when op mode is in Run or manual, playing with the resolver connections without hv is probably going to result in a error because udc will be bellow udcsw which will prevent run mode, if you want to play with resolver connections maybe use a 12v battery and set udcsw bellow 12v
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Re: 330e Hybrid Transmission

Post by andrewjenkins34 »

Thank you!

I've been checking resolver connections in manual start with no hv. I actually have a zombieverter controlling precharge and contactor so udc switch is set to 0 on the prius board which allows manual start and run mode regardless of hv connection.

My plan was to get the parameters set so that I could save them to the zombie and use an unmodified prius inverter in the future.

My 2 biggest struggles right now are an intermittent hicurofs2 error on manual start or run, and learning how to transmit over CAN.
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