Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

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electromatic
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Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by electromatic »

Hi, my name is Neil and I live near Belfast in Northern Ireland. Just starting out on my electric conversion journey though been daydreaming for a while now. Grateful to see the progress being made with OEM parts and hope to use this here and contribute something along the way.

Car is a 2005 Audi A8 D3. Attraction to me is aluminium body so lighter and less prone to corrosion as well as a nice spec. Cost to me was cheap because it had an oil pressure issue. Was able to solve this by changing the oil as the stuff in it must have been wrong grade (was like water). Was also lucky that the car was not far away from where I live. It drives nice and is first one I've had with CVT which is quite impressive. Almost seems a shame to take it apart but would not miss 25mpg...

One thing I was surprised by is that this one is FWD only (not quattro despite the badges). Having looked through ETKA and the audi technical manuals though I am relieved that it might not be too big an issue to fix as the rear subframe and hubs are the same. Aim will be to buy a suitable diff, mounts and driveshafts to bolt in. Should then end up with a pair of stub axles which I can then swap to the front - we will see. Plan is for car to be RWD at the end.

Not sure what the unexpected challenges will be yet, but I do anticipate some fun with the CAN bus side of things as there is a fair amount of stuff inside. So far I've got 4GB of CAN logs for the drivetrain and will work out how to share these on github soon. A few of the messages I've isolated so far seem to match up with some snippets I've found online. Next step is to isolate the gearbox and engine drivetrain can and see which messages go missing. Then hopefully spoof these and check I can get the car to turn on without weird error messages.

Have also bought a zombieverter and the transmission, oil pump, wiring loom and inverter though its not moved since I put them in the garage. My projects tend to be slow burners but perhaps posting here will keep things moving!

Cheers for now,

Neil
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by johu »

Very nice project car. You can find some typical VAG CAN info here: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Touran_Conversion

It works on Audi A2 and VW Touran both from 2004
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by SuperV8 »

electromatic wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:44 pm Hi, my name is Neil and I live near Belfast in Northern Ireland. Just starting out on my electric conversion journey though been daydreaming for a while now. Grateful to see the progress being made with OEM parts and hope to use this here and contribute something along the way.

Car is a 2005 Audi A8 D3. Attraction to me is aluminium body so lighter and less prone to corrosion as well as a nice spec. Cost to me was cheap because it had an oil pressure issue. Was able to solve this by changing the oil as the stuff in it must have been wrong grade (was like water). Was also lucky that the car was not far away from where I live. It drives nice and is first one I've had with CVT which is quite impressive. Almost seems a shame to take it apart but would not miss 25mpg...

One thing I was surprised by is that this one is FWD only (not quattro despite the badges). Having looked through ETKA and the audi technical manuals though I am relieved that it might not be too big an issue to fix as the rear subframe and hubs are the same. Aim will be to buy a suitable diff, mounts and driveshafts to bolt in. Should then end up with a pair of stub axles which I can then swap to the front - we will see. Plan is for car to be RWD at the end.

Not sure what the unexpected challenges will be yet, but I do anticipate some fun with the CAN bus side of things as there is a fair amount of stuff inside. So far I've got 4GB of CAN logs for the drivetrain and will work out how to share these on github soon. A few of the messages I've isolated so far seem to match up with some snippets I've found online. Next step is to isolate the gearbox and engine drivetrain can and see which messages go missing. Then hopefully spoof these and check I can get the car to turn on without weird error messages.

Have also bought a zombieverter and the transmission, oil pump, wiring loom and inverter though its not moved since I put them in the garage. My projects tend to be slow burners but perhaps posting here will keep things moving!

Cheers for now,

Neil
What motor are you planning?
You can just bolt on rear bearings from a Quattro which will accept the rear drive shafts.
Do you have air suspension? If yes is the compressor electric or driven off the engine?

Tom.
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by nkiernan »

Cool project 8-)

The A8 is one I'd love to see complete. Also working with the zombie and GS450H drive and not far away (Omagh) so shout if you need to see any of the setup.

Sure you're aware already, but lots of discussion in the General section on the DVLA regarding tax for post 2001 cars for UK/NI, in case its a factor!
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by electromatic »

Cool, first day on the forum and some replies already.
johu wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:15 am Very nice project car. You can find some typical VAG CAN info here: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Touran_Conversion

It works on Audi A2 and VW Touran both from 2004
Thanks indeed Johannes. I found your github repo when searching as well. I think the CAN payload on 0x580 is different in my car and occasionally deviates from the sequence as well. Bit of actual testing needed. The A8 has can bus connectors at each end of the dashboard so I've bought 2x of these and hopefully can snap the pins off for engine and gearbox ecu. It also has an energy control module that I need to figure out how to keep happy or it will do annoying things like turn off the radio to save the battery - think it talks to the alternator over LIN.
SuperV8 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:00 am
What motor are you planning?
You can just bolt on rear bearings from a Quattro which will accept the rear drive shafts.
Do you have air suspension? If yes is the compressor electric or driven off the engine?

Tom.
GS450H motor. According to part numbers from 7 zap, the hubs and bearings are same on quattro. Hoping the stub axles fit the front -
image.png
Car is air suspension and is driven by an electric pump behind the front bumper. It also seems to hold air when parked.
nkiernan wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:39 pm Cool project 8-)

The A8 is one I'd love to see complete. Also working with the zombie and GS450H drive and not far away (Omagh) so shout if you need to see any of the setup.

Sure you're aware already, but lots of discussion in the General section on the DVLA regarding tax for post 2001 cars for UK/NI, in case its a factor!
Nice one - be good to call by next I am up that way. I did come across the DVLA thing - wondering at the moment if its worth trying the radically altered vehicle route. Car tax is currently £300 odd...
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by mjc506 »

Radically altered needs (amongst other things) a test cert for your battery box(es). There was a video posted here recently which mentioned ~£6k per battery box...

I'd try avoiding an IVA :)
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by electromatic »

mjc506 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:39 pm Radically altered needs (amongst other things) a test cert for your battery box(es). There was a video posted here recently which mentioned ~£6k per battery box...

I'd try avoiding an IVA :)
Forget that idea then! Last vehicle I modified was a motorbike but it was before this stuff. Cheers
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by arber333 »

electromatic wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:14 pm
Forget that idea then! Last vehicle I modified was a motorbike but it was before this stuff. Cheers
[/quote]

Do not give up so fast. What ece r100 r2 requires for new battery box it makes up for in allowing for use of certified or OEM parts. This means regulators shouldnt require certificate and testing for stuff that was allready certified.
Some integration evidence would be required, but that is way easier than full battery box testing.
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by SuperV8 »

GS450H motor. According to part numbers from 7 zap, the hubs and bearings are same on quattro. Hoping the stub axles fit the front -
image.png

Car is air suspension and is driven by an electric pump behind the front bumper. It also seems to hold air when parked.
Ah yes - that's correct - even easier - just bolt in the driveshaft.
They would usually have a blanked off the wheel bearing with no hole - but instead are using a plug - shared with the Gallardo no less!!

image.png
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by SuperV8 »

SuperV8 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:25 am
GS450H motor. According to part numbers from 7 zap, the hubs and bearings are same on quattro. Hoping the stub axles fit the front -
image.png

Car is air suspension and is driven by an electric pump behind the front bumper. It also seems to hold air when parked.
Ah yes - that's correct - even easier - just bolt in the driveshaft.
They would usually have a blanked off the wheel bearing with no hole - but instead are using a plug - shared with the Gallardo no less!!

Hopefully the air suspension will just carry on doing it's thing with no engine.

image.pngimage.png
Just looked at the price of new front strut!
image.png
Looks like you have hydraulic steering
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by electromatic »

Hi again. Uploaded the CAN logs and some links to info. My spreadsheet so far is also on there but not fantastic so far. Hope I've got this right and ok to link here -

https://github.com/electro-matic/Audi-A8-D3-PT-CAN
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Re: Audi A8 D3 / Lexus GH450H

Post by Cookie6000 »

Great to see another Audi undergoing conversion. Love the D3. Good luck with the build, it's a great platform.
If I get the time and space, it'll be a B3/B4 Coupe powered by a GS350 box.... or 2 x CT200 (or prius) transaxles... or a Gen1 Allroad...I don't know until I can get my 8e being a reliable daily driver.
Look forward to more updates on the A8
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