Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

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Alibro
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Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Alibro »

Hi guys
I just watched a video on Youtube where a guy put a Mini Cooper electric power steering pump into his Hot Rod. ​
This is interesting enough but while reading the comments he mentioned at one point he changed the fluid to normal power steering fluid and the pump started drawing crazy current. When he put in fluid that was correct for the mini the problem stopped.
The reason I found this so interesting is my Zafira pump went mad drawing crazy current and I was using standard power steering fluid.
Could it be the problem was the fluid I was using? Unfortunately my EPAS pump met with an accident involving a soldering iron being accidently turned on so unless I buy another I won't be able to test this.

Here is the video.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by crasbe »

What exactly was the "standard" power steering fluid you used?

The Mini usually takes the green Pentosin CHF11S (or equivalent) and the TRW pump needs the same.
I've read that people used ATF, but as there are maaaaany different ATFs with different viscosities, it's probably better to use the fluid the pump was designed for.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Alibro »

crasbe wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:56 am What exactly was the "standard" power steering fluid you used?

The Mini usually takes the green Pentosin CHF11S (or equivalent) and the TRW pump needs the same.
I've read that people used ATF, but as there are maaaaany different ATFs with different viscosities, it's probably better to use the fluid the pump was designed for.
I used Dexron III atf which I was told was standard PS fluid for a Landrover Freelander. It was only after the soldering iron incident that I discovered the fluid may have been the issue. :?
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Bigpie »

I'm hopefully going to be removing my Zafira pump it some point in the next few months, you are welcome to it once it's out. I measured it's draw while turning the wheel at 14amps btw, it's just too loud for my liking.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Alibro »

Bigpie wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:52 am I'm hopefully going to be removing my Zafira pump it some point in the next few months, you are welcome to it once it's out. I measured it's draw while turning the wheel at 14amps btw, it's just too loud for my liking.
Thanks for that but I'm going to go ahead with the alternator motor and Freelander PS pump. It may be stupid and I might regret it but it's fun and something a bit different. I already have the brackets made up so it should just be a matter of bolting it all together when I'm ready.
BTW what are you going to replace it with?
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by crasbe »

I just looked up the Datasheets from Rowe for Dexron IIIG and IIIH and their ZH-M hydraulic liquid and the dynamic viscosity of the ATF is about 50% higher. That might certainly increase the resistance for the pump and therefore the current drawn.
Maybe there's a combination of your pump being faulty AND the wrong fluid. In the Freelander thread you wrote it draws 25A, which would be waaaay too much.

I don't know how the Freelander steering rack deals with the CHF11S CHF202/equivalent. It might be worth a shot since the pumps are not that expensive 🤔
They can be found in Astras as well.

Your other setup with the alternator looks interesting, but it possibly needs a dynamic tensioner as well for the Multi-V belt. 🤔

Edit: I previously wrote CHF11S, but the Zafira actually calls for CHF202 with Opel requirement 19 40 766.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Bigpie »

I've been given a VW electric steering rack from a later model Beetle, I'm hoping it fits without any modification. I've read it has a failsafe mode, but I'm hoping all the can messages I already have will be enough to make it happy.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by johu »

Yes it works without CAN or with the 0x280 message containing engine rpm. If so, rpm must be greater some threshold (600 or so) for it to work.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Bigpie »

Don't suppose you know the pin out? My googling isn't coming up with much
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by arber333 »

Bigpie wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:23 pm Don't suppose you know the pin out? My googling isn't coming up with much
Can you take a shot of connectors on the rack? I will see if 5hey are the same on my Ampera epas. I have wiring for that.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Bigpie »

20220107_090143.jpg
20220107_090150.jpg
Big one has to be 12v supply. Pin 1 looks like ground, so 2 must be 12v.

Found some info, I'll not paste an image as it's probably copyrighted.

Of the large 2 pin connector 1 is GND, 2 is 12v through an 80 amp fuse.
Of the 5 pin connector, pin 1 is CAN L and 2 is CAN H, pin 4 is ignition 12v though a 10 amp fuse.

It connects to the powertrain CAN.

*EDIT*
I applied 12v to the big connectors and to pin 4 and no failsafe mode, will see if anything comes out of the can pins tomorrow..

* EDIT *
No can coming out, I noticed the manual has the pin numbers opposite to marked on the socket for the 5 pin, either orientation yields no can or failsafe mode.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Alibro »

crasbe wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:09 pm I just looked up the Datasheets from Rowe for Dexron IIIG and IIIH and their ZH-M hydraulic liquid and the dynamic viscosity of the ATF is about 50% higher. That might certainly increase the resistance for the pump and therefore the current drawn.
Maybe there's a combination of your pump being faulty AND the wrong fluid. In the Freelander thread you wrote it draws 25A, which would be waaaay too much.

I don't know how the Freelander steering rack deals with the CHF11S CHF202/equivalent. It might be worth a shot since the pumps are not that expensive 🤔
They can be found in Astras as well.

Your other setup with the alternator looks interesting, but it possibly needs a dynamic tensioner as well for the Multi-V belt. 🤔

Edit: I previously wrote CHF11S, but the Zafira actually calls for CHF202 with Opel requirement 19 40 766.
I made a couple of videos



The alternator motor shows up at 4:20


Good point about the tensioner but I'll worry about that later. It seems to be OK for now.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by RetroZero »

I like your plan 'B'. Bravo.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Bigpie »

Also got the VW rack working. Will document on the wiki.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Alibro »

RetroZero wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:57 pm I like your plan 'B'. Bravo.
If I ever manage to fit Hall sensors to the altymotor I will be able to use a Sinewave controller which will be SOOO much quieter than this one.
If I can fit a permanent magnet I'll loose the losses in the rotor and do away with the brushes.
But these are upgrades for the future. ;)
Bigpie wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:12 pm Also got the VW rack working. Will document on the wiki.
Well done. :)
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by EV_Builder »

I would think its the banjo bolt who lets the pump think the wheels aren't straight, and then it keeps working.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Alibro »

EV_Builder wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 pm I would think its the banjo bolt who lets the pump think the wheels aren't straight, and then it keeps working.
I thought that too but even with the proper connection it still wouldn't spool down.
I still think it was either faulty or the wrong fluid.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by EV_Builder »

Ok, mhhh i would think that fluid don't have that much short term influence.
i have the same pump so i hope i will have a better experience.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by EV_Builder »

There is a Volvo CanBus controlled look a like pump "on the market" might be a plan C. :)
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Why not just use a Prius/Etc full electric power steering? No hydraulic at all. IIRC it's one wire, and without communication defaults to a comfortable value.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Alibro »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:34 pm Why not just use a Prius/Etc full electric power steering? No hydraulic at all. IIRC it's one wire, and without communication defaults to a comfortable value.
In my case my cars steering was designed to be hydraulic assisted so to use a Prius EPAS motor to force the steering from the column would probably not be a good idea. It was never designed to work that way and could shorten it's life considerably.
For older cars that did not have power assistance then EPAS should work well.
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Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Post by Spark »

Has anyone used the Bosch (MINI Cooper) pump and found a fitting to adapt the high side pressure fitting to -6AN? Any advice on the connecting the pressure lines would be a great help
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