Which friction disk to match Leaf splines

[Alibro]

If arlins dyno explodes, it’s doing it in a isolated location. It’s not a moving in a vehicle in public.

I’d rather have something explode when stationary, than when I’m moving at 120km on a highway. With traffic.

you can do a lot of things, and some of which are done by folks on this forum. Is it a safe methodology? No. dose it work? Yes.

Personally, looking at the full cost of making a coupler for the leaf out of clutch disks, raw material and machining made no sense to me.
it just made more economical sense to get a batch of custom couplers made. I didnt have personal access to a lathe big enough, or welding equipment capable.

machining down splined centres and interface fitting them in a rotex or love joy, is a safe way forward.

I don't believe the coupler I bought would explode at the rpm we are talking about as BMW will have over engineered them, at least not for several years but I take the point.
So assuming this coupler is not suitable it would be a simple thing to have a similar shaped coupler water jet cut from 1/2" steel along with the triangle adapters. Doing it this way would allow me to use bolts to assemble it and test for alignment before welding everything up including the coupler. It would probably be more accurate too as my measuring of the BMW coupler will not be perfect.

Building it like this brings up another question though, would adding all this weight to the coupler cause issues with the bearings in the motor and gearbox?

Machining the splines would be a last resort for me as there is no return and no second chances if it goes wrong and your £500 motor is now virtually worthless.

[Bratitude]

If arlins dyno explodes, it’s doing it in a isolated location. It’s not a moving in a vehicle in public.

I’d rather have something explode when stationary, than when I’m moving at 120km on a highway. With traffic.

you can do a lot of things, and some of which are done by folks on this forum. Is it a safe methodology? No. dose it work? Yes.

Personally, looking at the full cost of making a coupler for the leaf out of clutch disks, raw material and machining made no sense to me.
it just made more economical sense to get a batch of custom couplers made. I didnt have personal access to a lathe big enough, or welding equipment capable.

machining down splined centres and interface fitting them in a rotex or love joy, is a safe way forward.

I don't believe the coupler I bought would explode at the rpm we are talking about as BMW will have over engineered them, at least not for several years but I take the point.
So assuming this coupler is not suitable it would be a simple thing to have a similar shaped coupler water jet cut from 1/2" steel along with the triangle adapters. Doing it this way would allow me to use bolts to assemble it and test for alignment before welding everything up including the coupler. It would probably be more accurate too as my measuring of the BMW coupler will not be perfect.

Building it like this brings up another question though, would adding all this weight to the coupler cause issues with the bearings in the motor and gearbox?

Machining the splines would be a last resort for me as there is no return and no second chances if it goes wrong and your £500 motor is now virtually worthless.

[Bratitude]

a water jet plate is not going to be balanced. needs to be machined. On a lathe or cnc. anything out of balance will shorten the life of the leafs bearings.

Lucky it looks like replacing these bearings dose not look like a hard task. Celeron555 has a write up in his blog about it.


And yes weight is a concern. Both for performance and bearing life.

I designed a coupler that nested into a angular contact bearing in the adapter plate for these reasons.

[Bratitude]

Personally, looking at the full cost of making a coupler for the leaf out of clutch disks, raw material and machining made no sense to me.
it just made more economical sense to get a batch of custom couplers made. I didnt have personal access to a lathe big enough, or welding equipment capable.

machining down splined centres and interface fitting them in a rotex or love joy, is a safe way forward.

I agree welded coupler is not optimal, but if you consider my EV is my prime mover to work i needed to get it working when my clutch shed splines. When such a case repeated in the course of 1/2 a year i went for the best available option. Also i knew a single clutch center will not support the weight of the coupler. So we welded two clutch centers and it worked. I am actually impressed that i could weld on the fine grained coupler casting material.

Well i will get my friend to build splined insert tube with dowel pin groove on the outer side from tempered steel. This could be then cut to length and inserted into machined coupler whatever flavour that might be. Before final installation you would still need access to lathe, but it would mean a lot less operation and everything would be balanced in center.

what side sheared? The transmission or leaf ?


once I sell off the rest of the couplers I had made, I’m happy to share the coupler design and spline geometry !

[arber333]

what side sheared? The transmission or leaf ?

once I sell off the rest of the couplers I had made, I’m happy to share the coupler design and spline geometry !

No, the clutch disk splines in my Mazda MX3 sheared once and another time springs flew out of the disk. Disk splines are not hardened like the shaft splines so they remain sacrificial element.
What i figured i have small misalignment that causes clutch disk to vibrate on shaft under slow RPM. Now that i have two splines welded from each side of coupler i dont have this problem anymore.

[Alibro]

I've been thinking, (usually a dangerous thing. )
Am I right in saying a small imbalance of a few grams very close to the centre of the shaft would be a small issue but the diameter of the coupler I'm proposing could move the potential imbalance several cm away from the centre.
Would centrifugal force make that a bigger issue?

Will your coupler fit a Gen1 motor?

[Isaac96]

I've been thinking, (usually a dangerous thing. )
Am I right in saying a small imbalance of a few grams very close to the centre of the shaft would be a small issue but the diameter of the coupler I'm proposing could move the potential imbalance several cm away from the centre.
Would centrifugal force make that a bigger issue?

Yes, that would make it worse -- further away means it's moving faster and thus has more momentum.

[vwbrady]

So, i've received a version of a 7/8" 20t spline friction disc meant for a Geo Tracker, same specs as the blue print 2879670, and it fits horribly.



videos of other discs meant for Fiats fit MUCH better, but i can't figure out how to source them from the US.

[Alibro]

Have you tried Amazon? The Blueprint ADC43101 is available in the US for $55 and fits my Gen1 Motor better than that one

[Alibro]

I just found this one which I think is for a Honda Civic 1.4 circa 2005 to 2019 so should be available everywhere
Blue Print ADH23154
Better again it has a 20mm centre which should be a tighter fit than the previous one I mentioned at 22.3mm.

Lots of interesting clutch disc related content here including a video of a guy saying the Honda Civic disc sloppy when I thought it looked pretty good.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=326

[Alibro]

Here are a few videos pulled from Zapatero's project thread and my own. I will edit the first page in this thread to make it easier for following behind to find this info and add more info as I get it. The first post in this thread will be the most up to date.

Suzuki Samuri


Porsche


Honda 1.4 petrol


Geo Tracker


1970's Fiat 124 Spider and Blueprint ADC43101

[vwbrady]

Have you tried Amazon? The Blueprint ADC43101 is available in the US for $55 and fits my Gen1 Motor better than that one

great compilation of videos, that will be helpful for many. I'm liking the fit of the Honda 1.4l

I ordered a Suzuki Samurai disc a little while ago, which is reported to fit well, but also noted at 7/8" OD. We'll see!

[Alibro]

If you post a short video of how it fits I'll add it to the first post
Me too on the Honda. I plan to get one soon

[vwbrady]

Can anyone in europe help me source a Honda 1.4l disc??

I tried the Samurai and it's just as bad as the Geo Tracker.

[vwbrady]

I've located a 1.5l clutch disc for a NA "EF" early 90s Honda Civic. (sachs 1878654584 or M-PACT 99698D) It has the following dimensions: 27/32" X 20T (21.43mm)

I think this is likely the same spline as the 1.4l already tested by Philip. It's twice as expensive as the previous discs i've tried but we'll see how it fits.

NA buyers are bias toward automatic transmissions , and most of the small displacement engines were not offered here.

[Alibro]

I've located a 1.5l clutch disc for a NA "EF" early 90s Honda Civic. (sachs 1878654584 or M-PACT 99698D) It has the following dimensions: 27/32" X 20T (21.034mm)

I think this is likely the same spline as the 1.4l already tested by Philip. It's twice as expensive as the previous discs i've tried but we'll see how it fits.

NA buyers are bias toward automatic transmissions , and most of the small displacement engines were not offered here.

I think you have a typo as 27/32 is 21.431mm. It sounds like it might be too tight as the shaft is 21.6mm ish. Would it be possible to go around each valley with a hack saw to try and widen it out? Not sure how hard it would be to cut with a saw.

I have ordered a friction disc 20 tooth x 22mm and will report back.

[vwbrady]

turns out it's still too big!

[vwbrady]

I think you have a typo as 27/32 is 21.431mm. It sounds like it might be too tight as the shaft is 21.6mm ish. Would it be possible to go around each valley with a hack saw to try and widen it out? Not sure how hard it would be to cut with a saw.

I have ordered a friction disc 20 tooth x 22mm and will report back.

you're absolutely right.

So, I think im now going to go with a custom spline adapter.

[Alibro]

I think maybe one of the posts on the first page of this thread has a link to someone having them made.

[vwbrady]

I think maybe one of the posts on the first page of this thread has a link to someone having them made.

yup, Bratitude. I've PMed them.

[bexander]

Anyone tested with a Daihatsu Hijet clutch plate?
Sachs specs 19,4x22-20N for 1878 991 701.

[Alibro]

Anyone tested with a Daihatsu Hijet clutch plate?
Sachs specs 19,4x22-20N for 1878 991 701.

Not that I'm aware of but happy to be wrong.

[bexander]

Anyone tested with a Daihatsu Hijet clutch plate?
Sachs specs 19,4x22-20N for 1878 991 701.

This clutch plate has the wrong profile on the splines and does not fit the leaf motor shaft.

[Alibro]

Anyone tested with a Daihatsu Hijet clutch plate?
Sachs specs 19,4x22-20N for 1878 991 701.

This clutch plate has the wrong profile on the splines and does not fit the leaf motor shaft.

At one point I tried to find the Honda clutch plate mentioned in one of the videos in this thread, as it seemed like a nice fit but I already had the two I'm using so I didn't spend much time on it.
It might be worth a look.

[SuperV8]

I can't see anyone mention that when adapting ICE gearboxes to Electric motors they incorporate a pilot/spigot bearing to support the gearbox input shaft?
ICE gearboxes have a much longer (unsupported) input shaft than electric motor transmissions.

I would suggest this pilot bearing (usually in the centre of the flywheel) is important - especially when using motors with greatly increased torque over the original designed ICE.

These splined couplers should really only be used to transfer torque between two concentric shafts.