E Golf Battery pack

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JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

boekel wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:32 pm Hi all, I'm a bit late to the party... but I've taken apart quite some of the gen1 and gen2 e-golf batteries..

there is no need to cut the pack open! I only cut the tabs where bolts are, to get access to the glue.
with a 'long box cutter' style knife you can cut the glue and then pry the cover open a bit (some wooden blocks to keep tension on the glue) and cut the rest of the glue. 30-45 minutes maximum.

when removing gen2 cover I do cut a little bit of the front so the charge connector comes free easily.

wiring: just unwrap all orange wiring, they are 90% the same pinout but different length.

most 'master' modules (module with CMU) connect to 8s of other modules, some connect to less and have some special wiring to keep CMU working.

comms wiring is 'daisy chain style' but not really daisy chained (only the enable signal I believe)

contactor assembly I don't know much about, I just take them apart... they differ between the years btw.
For gen2 35,8kWh pack.

I have traced all the black and orange harnesses, pinouts and wire colours last year, and with Alibro's help, now completed the schematics, but I have only handwritten/drawn notes in Finnish.


Comms wire, Black.

enable is a loop from BMS to modules to BMS

CAN wires go daisychained from BMS to modules in different order than enable and end on last BMS slave.

12v and GND goes with CAN to half pack, daisychained from module to another, but split in the middle to go to two different sides of pack.

Orange harness actually has 5 different types.
Amount x 4S/2S modules starting from
the slave BMS module.
3x444
2x442
1x422
1x4422
1x42222

+1 wire to BMS from most positive module.

Others just need proper group to work.

I have a draft ready Image of all of it, that I will "computerize" later.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
boekel
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by boekel »

Nice work!

note that 5V is also enough on the 12v line to wake up the slaves!

update: when using multiple slaves, 5v doesn't do the trick, I need 12v then. for single module testing 5v seems to work (simpBMS only powered by USB)
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

boekel wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:28 pm Nice work!

note that 5V is also enough on the 12v line to wake up the slaves!
Thanks,

That's good to know, :) I found only 12V value from SimpBMS manual.
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boekel
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by boekel »

JaniK wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:32 am
boekel wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:28 pm Nice work!

note that 5V is also enough on the 12v line to wake up the slaves!
Thanks,

That's good to know, :) I found only 12V value from SimpBMS manual.
so you only have to use the SimpBMS 10 pin connector for the slaves :)
Alibro
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by Alibro »

I checked the voltages of each module today and the 4S modules are all either 14.72V or 14.73V so each 4S group is within 100th of a volt. I hope that is close enough but I guess for each cell to be 1/4 of 100th of a volt is pretty close. I haven't opened all the modules so I don't know the exact voltage of each cell but will do so if anyone thinks it important. The 2S modules were all 7.36V so all the cells are pretty much 3.68V.
I'm thinking 3.68V is probably a little lower than ideal but close enough that they will not come to any harm.
I need a bigger hammer!
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

I think that is a OK storage voltage to have :)
Close to mine ;)

I had more variations on voltages.

And when it is not full,
There is room for testing charging. :)
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Anderson4wd
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by Anderson4wd »

I wonder if any of you guys got anywhere with the e-Golf battery pack. I got a pack from evbreakers last week, it came with the DC/CD and charger from the Golf. Was hopping to hook them together and voiala but it seems it isn't the case, or it is? Am I just missing some volts as it has only 88s? Anyone know how many KMH are we talking about?

Regards,
Anderson
Alibro
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by Alibro »

Anderson4wd wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:09 pm I wonder if any of you guys got anywhere with the e-Golf battery pack. I got a pack from evbreakers last week, it came with the DC/CD and charger from the Golf. Was hopping to hook them together and voiala but it seems it isn't the case, or it is? Am I just missing some volts as it has only 88s? Anyone know how many KMH are we talking about?

Regards,
Anderson
I have the pack stripped with all battery modules and cables labelled but haven't got any further due to heavy work commitments and life getting in the way but I hope to get back to it this weekend.
I need a bigger hammer!
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

For kWh, the amount depends on you pack age,
(gen1 is 24,2kWh and gen2 is 35,8kWh)

2016 and older, Panasonic, is gen1
2017 can be either one.
2018 and newer, Samsung, is gen2

That's about the help I can give, VW charger is a mystery and so is the BMS.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
m.art.y
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by m.art.y »

Hi guys. Anybody know anything about egolf 2016 24 kwh packs? Maybe somebody has pictures of the modules or cells? Is it possible to use simp BMS on it and if it fully works? Are the cells pouch type and are the cell connections accessible to use with custom bms if need be?
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

The modules are same size as the modules in our 35,8kwh packs but with orange cover and less energy in module.

The cell is like this:

https://images.app.goo.gl/LjUo86cwyuWmrsy49

SimpBMS should read the voltages, but Does NOT balance.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
boekel
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by boekel »

I've learned that with the Samsung (gen2) version, of the 8 modules with a CMU PCB on board, the 3 of them that don't have 8 cells of 'slave' modules connected, also don't give values for those slave cells when you do connect them.

This is a difference with the gen1 version that does support this.

the CMU id's that don't support a 12s string are: 3,4 & 8

id3: 8s
id4: 10s
id8: 8s
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

boekel wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 6:20 am I've learned that with the Samsung (gen2) version, of the 8 modules with a CMU PCB on board, the 3 of them that don't have 8 cells of 'slave' modules connected, also don't give values for those slave cells when you do connect them.

This is a difference with the gen1 version that does support this.

the CMU id's that don't support a 12s string are: 3,4 & 8

id3: 8s
id4: 10s
id8: 8s
That is good to know, thanks! :D :)
I must check and label them better before installing then.

So there is "an order" to keep in the 8X BMS MODULES if one wants to use the VW BMS system.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

Allright, a E-Golf gen2 BMC (battery master controller?)
DSC_1864~2.JPG
Let's see if he talks to me.
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by Alibro »

JaniK wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:24 pm Allright, a E-Golf gen2 BMC (battery master controller?)
DSC_1864~2.JPG

Let's see if he talks to me.
All he said to me was "Close the lid and GO AWAY" :o
I need a bigger hammer!
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

Alibro wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 7:28 pm
JaniK wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:24 pm Allright, a E-Golf gen2 BMC (battery master controller?)
DSC_1864~2.JPG

Let's see if he talks to me.
All he said to me was "Close the lid and GO AWAY" :o
I have traced the wiring and plugged in 5V to VW battery packs Car side connector see what happens. Nothing happened, except the board drawing 70mA of current. There is 2 CAN buses in the black round connector outside of VW battery pack. Only if I had a working E-Golf now to see how it should work.

I wonder about 4 the pin through hole section on board, there is +5V and GND (square) and 2 (data?) in the middle. Maybe I plug in serial there to see if it is that easy?
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by boekel »

Please note that I updated my statement that 5V is enough to use the slaves...it isn't when I try to use more than 1 slave (need 12V than)
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

boekel wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 4:30 pm Please note that I updated my statement that 5V is enough to use the slaves...it isn't when I try to use more than 1 slave (need 12V than)
Thanks, will remember this.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

I actually scanned the bottom of the modules and made paper modules. So this is PAD design then?

Assume the Leftmost module will have the BMS CAN wiring.

This is 4 types of rectangular packs in picture you can make with the slaves wired as per the original pinouts and BMS wiring.

So a box like this could have only:
1 connector for CAN wiring.
HV +/- terminals or connector.
and could then be mounted anywhere.

White paper on back is 39cm high and 45cm wide.
So a box would be larger with safety margins and around the modules.

The 5th type of box is one large and 2 small modules. So just think rightmost row out from the one large+4 smaller modules pictured and you get the idea.

So total:
3x 3 large
2x 2 large + 1 small
1x 2 large + 2 small
1x 1 large + 4 small
1x 1 large + 2 small
Attachments
Screenshot_20210806-200402~2.png
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
Alibro
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by Alibro »

I've been thinking about the BMS for these modules as one of my battery boxes is almost complete.
To try and put off the BMS decision I've decided to put all slaves in this box so there will be 4 large and 2 small modules making 18 cells.
I can bring the wiring out of these cells with some kind of multicore and use ring terminals to connect to each cell as I don't want to mess up the BMS harness any more than I have to at this stage. I might still be able to use it in the future.
I thought it would be cool to have copies of the slave module PCB's made so that when I go to use the Masters I could replace their PCB's and still use the same harness but I ran into problems trying to find the connectors. It seems the slave BMS connectors are common to VAG seat harnesses and the plugs are available from Aliexpress but I couldn't find PCB connectors.
Now I'm thinking of removing the master PCB's altogether and just using ring terminals.
I have a Nissan Leaf BMS and was kinda hoping I might figure out a way of using it but not sure if that is an option.
I need a bigger hammer!
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

Since the modules are so similar, see how it dies.

From 8:30, hammering of GTE cell module.
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by Alibro »

JaniK wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:42 am Since the modules are so similar, see how it dies.

From 8:30, hammering of GTE cell module.
There is a lot of energy in these modules but I guess not very surprising.
I wonder what would happen if you did the same to a can of petrol?
I need a bigger hammer!
JaniK
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by JaniK »

Hitting the can would propably do not much harm, but the blowtroch might cause faster burning of petrol than The battery did.
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jeltop
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by jeltop »

Hello, I bought a battery pack golf GTE 8.7KWH 25ah Panasonic slovakia
and I haven't opened it yet.
My project would be to recover the modules of the lithium battery to use them for the solar panels with an inverter.
Is this possible in your opinion?
and how can i test the battery to see if i have been robbed, as it is a chance.
Thanking you very much
arber333
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Re: E Golf Battery pack

Post by arber333 »

jeltop wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:09 pm Hello, I bought a battery pack golf GTE 8.7KWH 25ah Panasonic slovakia
and I haven't opened it yet.
My project would be to recover the modules of the lithium battery to use them for the solar panels with an inverter.
Is this possible in your opinion?
and how can i test the battery to see if i have been robbed, as it is a chance.
Thanking you very much
In my opinion you should reconfigure modules from 12S into 16S configuration. That way inverter will work at higher battery potential.
As i have Volt battery 12S with my solar setup i am seeing some adverse behaviour as inverter has 48V minimum for change from utillity.
If i would be able to use higher cell count i could setup for it to move in higher voltage range.
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