Outlander rear motor and inverter

Mitsubishi hybrid drive unit hacking
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pemtek
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by pemtek »

I have a motor, inverter, charger and battery from an outlander installed in a Honda civic. The charger and motor only need 4 can commands between them in total to work. I have shared the information with a couple of people on here already. But I will be in a position to report actually driving a car running the outlander parts in the next few days if I can get a few hours on it away from jobs around my home..

I actually have a stack of chargers, 7 motors and inverters. I also have a front transmission which has 2 motors and the front inverter controls both motors easily with basically the same commands that drive the rear. It looks entirely possible to use both motors in parallel for a really good power output for the money.

Phil
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Ruudi S »

I remember when I was investigating i-MiEV electrical system, there was writen in service manual that EV-ECU wich controls the motor inverter sends somekind of unique VIN or other codes to the inverter to allow the motor to start.
Seems like it is not true for Outlander inverter (wich has the same manufacturer) if you just send it CAN codes and it works.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by pemtek »

The rear inverter is programmed with the vehicle vin and it is transmitted continually. The phev ecu will not drive the inverters if the vin from the rear inverter does not match so it is partly correct.

Phil
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

got all motors spinning with OEM inverters



There are so many quirks to controlling these, it will take quite some work getting a usable control software written.

Hope to get a rear motor fitted to a test vehicle soon.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by pemtek »

Seems to behave pretty well using a full throttle map I mocked up. I hope to be testing it under load in the civic this week. I just know I will be wishing I fitted the outlander front transmission with both motors when I drive it..

Phil
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by arber333 »

Well i got one Mitsubishi connector for rear inverter here and i researched the *** out of it.
It is marked Hirose GT18WB-14DS-HU A and it has a single key on each side.

Resolver connector is obviously GT18WB-14DS-HU also 14pin connector but with 2 keys on each side. Both sides of rear motor resolver harness have the same connector oriented in the same way, so it is no problem how to connect it.

Digikey can get it for you
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?key ... T18WB-14DS
But crimps are to be had in 10000 quantity...

https://www.hirose.com/product/document ... =D49386_en
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by bobby_come_lately »

tom91 wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:03 pm got all motors spinning with OEM inverters



There are so many quirks to controlling these, it will take quite some work getting a usable control software written.

Hope to get a rear motor fitted to a test vehicle soon.
Are these the Meiden motors @tom91? In a moment of madness I took the plunge and bought one of the 70kw ones that Second Life EV was selling on eBay. My *hope* (and it is that more than expectation at the moment) is to get one of these running with the Prius Gen 3 inverter and the BMW battery packs that Damian is playing with.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

Jup thats the new project at work, will be using a VCU I am designing and coding.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Shaf1926 »

pemtek wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:21 pm The rear inverter is programmed with the vehicle vin and it is transmitted continually. The phev ecu will not drive the inverters if the vin from the rear inverter does not match so it is partly correct.

Phil
Hi, I'm following this thread with interest as I have a used rear motor and inverter that I want to use for a project.

If I read the above correctly, if on an outlawed vehicle someone was to swap the rear inverter with one from a different car then the main vehicle vcu would refuse to run it as the him the inverter transmits would not match.
But the inverter itself doesn't do a similar check. So the rear inverter will run so long as it gets the torque request commands over CAN.

Is that right?
Makes it sound like a fairly simple set up to use.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Shaf1926 »

tom91 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 8:47 pm Jup thats the new project at work, will be using a VCU I am designing and coding.
I'd be very interested to find out more about what you are doing on the vcu side.

I used to do tcu and vcu as for a major car manufacturer. I'm now working on a project for myself but need to get hold of suitable hardware.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by arber333 »

I would also like to know about the progress of this zombie.
If this VCU is successfull in driving the motor by its natural inverter, then we add charger and DCDC and some peripherals and we are are done.
Trully done! :twisted:
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by ScottS »

Hello All,

Have just got a rear motor and inverter. Came with the resolver cable and a bunch of HV cables so that's handy.

Looks like the Vehicle connector is out of stock on digikey and apparently obsolete according to mouser... Anyone found any spares (or happen to have any lying around?)

Will get a test setup going and join in the Reverse Engineering fun.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by arber333 »

I have the same problem. I am thinking of cutting the harness off and extending wires out of inverter through my own grommet. It's only like 6 wires. Then I would put a standard sealed connector on them.
Wouldn't look as nice as original, but it would be functional.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by ScottS »

Has anyone had luck with 3D printing connectors? Not sure if the resolution and accuracy will be high enough, but I'll give it a go. Would be useful if anyone can identify an alternative female pin which fits the male pins, I don't have many lying around.

Also, split my motor off today to try and measure the splines. Looks like it's 20mm with 18 splines. Then went on a hunt for a clutch disk similar. Seems the Suzuki Jimny SJ410 (1.0 litre) has that size. Don't suppose anyone here would happen to have one of those to hand?

I've also got some fairly good measurements of a drive which I'll use to start drawing up an adaptor. This is going on a VW beetle gearbox.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

3D printed connectors work fine, the pins mate to the standard Dupont style 2.54mm connectors.

Image

Main issue will be getting it to be waterproof which will take some application of sealant.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by ScottS »

Ah great thanks.

Will get an SJ clutch disk to check the fit.

Will also design some blanks/gland plates for the auxiliary power, DC and Motor ports.

I've got a rough design drawn up of the motor flange, will print this out to check the accuracy.

Does someone have the pinout for the vehicle connector? Assuming it's mainly power, ground, CAN. There doesn't appear to be an HVIL loop... I'm assuming that the HV DC is not required to be connected to communicate with the inverter. I suppose the next question will be what is the CAN baud. I am happy to start documenting things on the Wiki for these drives.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by ScottS »

If I made a few of these, would anyone be interested in some? Can either make with Cable Glands (can only really fit M12), as blanks, or custom.

This is the first design so need to trial and iterate, but any recommendations gladly accepted! Obviously for development purposes only!
Outlander Inverter Cable Gland.png
Plan do do the other ports too if anyone has any particular needs.
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RAS_666
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by RAS_666 »

This any help?
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander ... dex_M1.htm
Unless it takes you to the main page click 90 circuit diagrams and them motor control systems it's got the front and rear inverters.
I have a sla 3d printer resolution on that would be good enough to make the plugs unfortunately my design skills aren't
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by SciroccoEV »

ScottS wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:41 am Has anyone had luck with 3D printing connectors? Not sure if the resolution and accuracy will be high enough, but I'll give it a go.
I've had coil bobbins 3D printed with great results. The sample pack contained printed connector housings.

I'd recommend this company a look; https://www.3dprint-uk.co.uk/
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by ScottS »

RAS_666 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:07 am This any help?
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander ... dex_M1.htm
Unless it takes you to the main page click 90 circuit diagrams and them motor control systems it's got the front and rear inverters.
I have a sla 3d printer resolution on that would be good enough to make the plugs unfortunately my design skills aren't
Great, thanks! For some reason I didn't actually think to just Google it :|

Will give that part a go on a normal home 3D printer. May not be high enough resolution for the vehicle connector but will try that too once I've drawn it.

By the way, can highly recommend Onshape and following a few YouTube videos, you'd be designing parts in no time! (Honestly I'm an electrical engineer, only have a few hours of CAD experience).
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by SciroccoEV »

ScottS wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:47 pm Great, thanks! For some reason I didn't actually think to just Google it :|
Don't worry, that just means you're like 99.99% of the population.
By the way, can highly recommend Onshape and following a few YouTube videos, you'd be designing parts in no time! (Honestly I'm an electrical engineer, only have a few hours of CAD experience).
I tried OnShape after running into the limitations of Designspark Mechanical (a free, but heavily cut down version of SpaceClaim).

The cloud based nature of the beast was a complete deal breaker as sometimes I needed to work in places with marginal or no WiFi.
I found Fusion 360 much easier to use and even Autodesk had to learn their lesson about cloud storage. You can't ever make it reliable enough, instead you have to make its failure graceful. You can use Fusion with no internet connection and have all your data cached on a local drive.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by ScottS »

FYI - I've made a Wiki Page to start collating information on the Motor:

https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... Drive_Unit

Will create one for the inverter.

I've been working on a coupling to a VW gearbox:
Gearbox Coupling.png
I can foresee the driveshaft coupling being a challenge with the splines - anyone have any advice on this? I'm hoping to find a suitable clutch plate (still waiting for the Suzuki Jimny one to arrive) but don't want to have to have a custom shaft coupling made if I can avoid it. Although I did consider whether a low cost way to achieve this would be by laser cutting the splines from thick plate.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

ScottS wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:05 am I can foresee the driveshaft coupling being a challenge with the splines - anyone have any advice on this?
iirc the last coupler we had made was 80 euro and just required the gearbox and motor at the engineering workshop for a couple of days (they also made an adapter plate at the same time). Watch from 5:00 in this video;

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30#p4751
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by pickmeup »

If you need a bit of CAD work i use CATIA and will be moving onto fusion 360 soon.

Ive currently got a couple of the motors and reduction gearboxes, with one mounted in the front mini subframe on custom mounts.

I was hoping to try and 3d scan the motor and box but havent been able to yet. I also have an inverter and DC-DC /Charger unit of the outlander but i havent touched them yet.
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