Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:38 pm

What colour are your DCDC command lines?
Pin 4 DC SW (enables the DC:DC converter, seems to just target 14V when this is high) -- GRAY
Pin 7 Sense line for DC to DC converter --- GREEN
Pin 10 GND --- BLACK

I managed to pry the unit open to determine which side connector is positive...pics.

Also one pic of the N/L/PE connections.

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:13 pm

I had no luck with DCDC starting.
When i connect pin 10 (GND) i get a little spark. But then if i connect enable and sense pins i get nothing.
Did i mess up my connection?

This is the connector on my charger side.
Your circuit is for the male one or the female on the side of the car?

Dilbert · Post by **Dilbert** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:43 pm

Yes the DC:DC is pin 4, which i think it the grey wire.

Pin 7 & 8 connected to 12V VBAT (one powers the charger the other is the sense line for the DC:DC
Pin 10 is ground.

Once these connections are made you should see data on the CAN bus.

Then bringing pin 4 high the DC:DC will start.

I obviously also connect a heavy-duty ground to the case of the charger and the output of the DC:DC is the black cable which i bring to the battery 12V.

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:15 pm

Dilbert wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:43 pm Then bringing pin 4 high the DC:DC will start.

That did it! Thank you.
I got a good 8A from DCDC and battery jumped to 14.35V. I must say this is quite high, but it works for powering the car.
Anyone has any idea how much power can it provide?

EDIT: I lend my 12V 1kW load to a friend so i only have secondary load here and behold... 25A of 14.4Vdc goodness! That is like 360W easy.
Ill report back when i get 90A load here.

RAS_666 · Post by **RAS_666** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:14 am

If anyone wanted a charger plug https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3467142995 I bought one of these and it does fit. The inverter ones are proving slightly more tricky plus none of the scrappy seem willing to chop one off to sell!

Dilbert · Post by **Dilbert** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:33 pm

RAS_666 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:14 am If anyone wanted a charger plug https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3467142995 I bought one of these and it does fit. The inverter ones are proving slightly more tricky plus none of the scrappy seem willing to chop one off to sell!

Looks like the same plug as one of the plugs on the GS450h gearbox (if i'm not mistaken). I don't have the charger here to check, but it looks like the correct plug.

RAS_666 · Post by **RAS_666** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:04 pm

It's advertised on aliexpress as a Toyota gearbox plug so that would seem likely. The 2 inverter plugs are the same hirose part number just A and B versions of the key however they are no longer manufactured

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:22 pm

I have connected the DCDC to a 220Vdc battery and put a 12V load on it to get some facts.

1. DCDC is capable of providing 30A of 13.6Vdc load. I tried to load it with my 1kW load and it folded to 11Vdc! Therefore i can safely state it it capable of some 500W of power. I thought this would be more...

2. After we done the first experiment i went and connected HV side to lower voltage than 200Vdc. At first i would only get 1A from it, but i increased voltage by jumping across cells and finally at 213Vdc DCDC started to provide full 14V and some 30A for the load.

I assume charger would have the same low voltage limit since they are in the same casing. I will confirm this fact when i receive my summimoto connector.

Filip · Post by **Filip** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:42 pm

Nice testing, I have also bought one unit for use in a conversion.
Did you have cooling connected? If no, do you think that there could be an increase in power if the unit is cooled?

RAS_666 · Post by **RAS_666** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:20 pm

arber333 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:22 pm I have connected the DCDC to a 220Vdc battery and put a 12V load on it to get some facts.

1. DCDC is capable of providing 30A of 13.6Vdc load. I tried to load it with my 1kW load and it folded to 11Vdc! Therefore i can safely state it it capable of some 500W of power. I thought this would be more...

2. After we done the first experiment i went and connected HV side to lower voltage than 200Vdc. At first i would only get 1A from it, but i increased voltage by jumping across cells and finally at 213Vdc DCDC started to provide full 14V and some 30A for the load.

I assume charger would have the same low voltage limit since they are in the same casing. I will confirm this fact when i receive my summimoto connector.

The charger and dc to dc stop working if the voltage drops below 190v and start again just over 200V it also cuts off at about 420v too. I think it makes a lot more than 30A BTW

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:57 am

pemtek wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:02 pm Yes I have it all working and the motor inverters working also. As I said I am making a basic controller with outputs that drive the outlander front and rear inverters and the charger and dcdc and link to a BMS to control the charge rate.

Phil

Any news on your Civic build? I would like to know if the application works in a car in torque mode.

Thanks for your info.

A

FJ3422 · Post by **FJ3422** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:37 am

Just got my Outlander DC-DC & Charger fully working, thanks for the information in this thread !

A tone-generator app & headphone-out + small amplifier gave me the possibility to generate the various 1KHz PWM-width's for simulating the EVSE.

However, it would be nice to be able to set a maximum charge voltage. Does anyone know how to activate the CV mode ? Or does someone have a (long) CAN-log of the last part of a charging process ? (CC to CV and following shutoff)

Bigpie · Post by **Bigpie** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:22 pm

pemtek wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:07 pm The front inverter and transmission actually has 2 motors with two fairly identical inverters. With the clutch engaged both motors could be used in parallel making a fairly decent power output.

This is a very poor video of the "generator" motor spinning backwards. I did the majority of work on the rear inverter and quickly tested the same commands to the front inverters. The lock in mention in the video was the parking lock which I have now removed and now both motors happily spin together with the clutch locked.

Phil

I have the front gearbox, but a prius inverter. Don't suppose you have information on the clutch and how it's locked to allow motor and generator to produce power?

RAS_666 · Post by **RAS_666** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:46 pm

Bigpie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:22 pm
pemtek wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:07 pm The front inverter and transmission actually has 2 motors with two fairly identical inverters. With the clutch engaged both motors could be used in parallel making a fairly decent power output.

This is a very poor video of the "generator" motor spinning backwards. I did the majority of work on the rear inverter and quickly tested the same commands to the front inverters. The lock in mention in the video was the parking lock which I have now removed and now both motors happily spin together with the clutch locked.

Phil
I have the front gearbox, but a prius inverter. Don't suppose you have information on the clutch and how it's locked to allow motor and generator to produce power?

Have a look in here http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander ... dex_M2.htm
Transaxle section. I seem to think that the pump was driven off the diff and doesn't build up enough pressure till 20 or 30mph to engage there's a little solenoid on the side of the box that activates it.

Bigpie · Post by **Bigpie** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:36 pm

Thanks. Manual confirms this. When time allows I'll teardown the gearbox for a closer look.

FJ3422 · Post by **FJ3422** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:26 pm

FJ3422 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:37 am Just got my Outlander DC-DC & Charger fully working, thanks for the information in this thread !

A tone-generator app & headphone-out + small amplifier gave me the possibility to generate the various 1KHz PWM-width's for simulating the EVSE.

However, it would be nice to be able to set a maximum charge voltage. Does anyone know how to activate the CV mode ? Or does someone have a (long) CAN-log of the last part of a charging process ? (CC to CV and following shutoff)

Figured out some more scalings then were already mentioned earlier:

Code: Select all

0x377h 8bytes DC-DC converter status
	B0+B1 = 12V Battery voltage	(h04DC=12,45V -> 0,01V/bit)
	B2+B3 = 12V Supply current	(H53=8,3A -> 0,1A/bit)
	B4 = 	Temperature 1		(starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
	B5 = 	Temperature 2		(starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
	B6 = 	Temperature 3		(starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
	B7 = 	Statusbyte 		(h20=standby, h21=error, h22=in operation)
		bit0(LSB) = Error 
`		bit1	  = In Operation
		bit3      =
		bit4      =
		bit5      = Ready
		bit6	  = 
		bit7(MSB) = 
	
	
0x389h 8bytes Charger status
	B0 = HV-Batteryvoltage 		(hAB=342V -> 2V/bit)
	B1 = AC-Mains voltage 		(hE2=226V -> 1V/bit)
	B2 = DC-charge current (1?)	(h5B=9,1A -> 0,1A/bit
	B3 = Temperature 1		(starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
	B4 = Temperature 2		(starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
	B5 = Statusbyte			(CA while charging)
		bit0(LSB) = 
`		bit1	  = Mains voltage present
		bit2  	  = 
		bit3      = Charging
		bit4      = Error (no CAN messages received)
		bit5      =
		bit6	  = DC-DC converter request active
		bit7(MSB) = 1KHz pilot present		
	B6 = AC-Mains current 		(h91=14,5A -> 0,1A/bit)
	B7 = DC-charge current (2?)	(same as B3, sometimes differs by 0,1A)


0x38ah 8bytes Charger status
	B0 = Temperature		Raises together with other temperatures, but with +5deg offset
	B1 = Temperature		(starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
	B2 = DC-bus voltage 		(9B=310V -> 2V/bit)
	B3 = PWM-signal from EVSE 	(h19=25% -> 1%/bit)
	B4 = Status
		bit0(LSB) = 
`		bit1	  =
		bit2	  = Wait for mains voltage 
		bit3      = Ready for charging
		bit4      =
		bit5      =
		bit6	  = 
		bit7(MSB) = 
	B5 = 00
	B6 = 00
	B7 = 00


SEND
0x285	B3 	= hB6 enables charging, other bytes can stay 00

0x286	B1+B2 	= voltage setpoint 		(0E74=370.0V, 0,1V/bit) -> How to enable CV mode ??
	B3 	= current setpoint DC-side 	(78=12A -> 0,1A/bit)

Dilbert · Post by **Dilbert** » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:52 am

FJ3422 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:37 am Just got my Outlander DC-DC & Charger fully working, thanks for the information in this thread !

A tone-generator app & headphone-out + small amplifier gave me the possibility to generate the various 1KHz PWM-width's for simulating the EVSE.

However, it would be nice to be able to set a maximum charge voltage. Does anyone know how to activate the CV mode ? Or does someone have a (long) CAN-log of the last part of a charging process ? (CC to CV and following shutoff)

Yes it would be nice to get cv mode working on the charger, I will try capture a log if I turn on the charger when the battery is almost full, it should go into constant voltage mode (and possibly balance the pack)...

PatrykS · Post by **PatrykS** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 pm

arber333 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:46 pm Also my friend just got Mitsubishi Outlander pack 13kWh 96S

All Outlander packs (12 and 13kWh) are 80S, not 96S.

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:52 am

PatrykS wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 pm All Outlander packs (12 and 13kWh) are 80S, not 96S.

True, he got additional 2 modules and so his capacity must be larger than 13kW.

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:38 pm

Dilbert wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:52 am Yes it would be nice to get cv mode working on the charger, I will try capture a log if I turn on the charger when the battery is almost full, it should go into constant voltage mode (and possibly balance the pack)...

Maybe you could just wait for the charger to report your CV on address 0x389 B1? uC would just wait for 0x389 to report such voltage and it can order charger to reduce amps to 1A and then hold there untill 0x389 reports absolute limit.
I would put absolute limit maybe 2V higher from CV limit.

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:25 pm

Dilbert wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:12 pm I've successfully got the Outlander charger to charge the prius battery

0x285 Frame Sent to the charger, to control EVSE
Byte 2 = 0xb6 pulls in the EVSE

0x286 Frame Sent to charger to control charging:
Byte 0-1 = Voltage setpoint (seems to be ignored, but i'm wondering is there a constant voltage mode which uses this)
Byte 2 = Current in amps x 10

Can you tell me which CAN interval you used for 0x285 message and which for 0x286?
I am preparing a DUE brain to work with charger and activate DCDC and pull EVSE relay in.
I think of using 100ms fast pinging for 0x285 and 800ms for 0x286. Would that be ok?

tnx

Dilbert · Post by **Dilbert** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:23 pm

I posted my test application a few pages back, this was run on the due. I was sending them at 50ms, but it doesn't seem too picky.

seanyt · Post by **seanyt** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:14 am

Dilbert wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:52 am
FJ3422 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:37 am Just got my Outlander DC-DC & Charger fully working, thanks for the information in this thread !

A tone-generator app & headphone-out + small amplifier gave me the possibility to generate the various 1KHz PWM-width's for simulating the EVSE.

However, it would be nice to be able to set a maximum charge voltage. Does anyone know how to activate the CV mode ? Or does someone have a (long) CAN-log of the last part of a charging process ? (CC to CV and following shutoff)
Yes it would be nice to get cv mode working on the charger, I will try capture a log if I turn on the charger when the battery is almost full, it should go into constant voltage mode (and possibly balance the pack)...

I was also curious about this CV/CV mode change and i have been informed that the PHEV ecu monitors voltage and when it gets to the suitable voltage it regulates the current to maintain this voltage setpoint. So it essentially takes over the CV control.
So whatever microcontroller you use will need to keep this in mind and have a watchdog system so you don't exceed your peak voltage.

Much like the PHEV ecu sets the torque limit/rpm limit and power limit and the inverter is the dumb device.

arber333 · Post by **arber333** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:42 am

Dilbert wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:23 pm I posted my test application a few pages back, this was run on the due. I was sending them at 50ms, but it doesn't seem too picky.

Ok thanks. I will first adapt EVTV CAN code. It seems this will run without a problem.

A

Dilbert · Post by **Dilbert** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:43 pm

seanyt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:14 am
Dilbert wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:52 am
FJ3422 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:37 am Just got my Outlander DC-DC & Charger fully working, thanks for the information in this thread !

A tone-generator app & headphone-out + small amplifier gave me the possibility to generate the various 1KHz PWM-width's for simulating the EVSE.

However, it would be nice to be able to set a maximum charge voltage. Does anyone know how to activate the CV mode ? Or does someone have a (long) CAN-log of the last part of a charging process ? (CC to CV and following shutoff)
Yes it would be nice to get cv mode working on the charger, I will try capture a log if I turn on the charger when the battery is almost full, it should go into constant voltage mode (and possibly balance the pack)...
I was also curious about this CV/CV mode change and i have been informed that the PHEV ecu monitors voltage and when it gets to the suitable voltage it regulates the current to maintain this voltage setpoint. So it essentially takes over the CV control.
So whatever microcontroller you use will need to keep this in mind and have a watchdog system so you don't exceed your peak voltage.

Much like the PHEV ecu sets the torque limit/rpm limit and power limit and the inverter is the dumb device.

Yep that's pretty much it.

I still find it hard to imagine they didn't include a CV mode in the charger, especially for balancing the pack, where CV mode would be useful. So far we have figured out CC mode.

I need setup to log the outlander again and start a charge cycle with a full battery and see if we can get CV mode.

Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC