Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Mitsubishi hybrid drive unit hacking
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Dilbert
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Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

Hi all,

I wanted to see what information there is currently out there regarding the outlander PHEV charger and DC:DC. We know it is only a 3.6kwhr unit, but this should be ok for most DIY EVs. The only downside is that unit might be limited to 360V?

It looks like the unit is a carryover from IMIEV, but I stand to be correct on that one. Some of the early units had reliability issues, but that means that many DIYers have been repairing them for quite a while and there's a nice thread here:-
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4079

Wiki page: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... r_DCDC_OBC

I have access to a vehicle so I can potentially capture CAN traffic to/from the unit while it is doing the charging cycle. I can also capture the bus in normal operation, so that should enable us to see the BMS data.
Dilbert
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

I ordered an outlander charger and DC:DC earlier in the week and it arrived yesterday. It is quite a neat unit, would easily fit in a spare wheel well of a conversion.

I found some good diagrams online for the outlander which detail the 13 pin connector on the side of the unit. Here's the pin out so far:

Pin 1 ? (Orange)
Pin 2 NC
Pin 3 ? (Blue)
Pin 4 DC SW (enables the DC:DC converter, seems to just target 14V when this is high)
Pin 5 CHIN (Serial protocol to EV Remote wifi module)
Pin 6 CAN H (Black)
Pin 7 Sense line for DC to DC converter
Pin 8 IGCT main power to charger
Pin 9 control pilot signal from evse to charger
Pin 10 GND
Pin 11 NC
Pin 12 CHOT (Serial protocol to EV Remote wifi module)
Pin 13 CAN L (Red)

I powered up the unit from a 12V supply, takes about 250mA and was able to see 500kbps traffic on the CAN bus, using SavyCAN. The proximity signal connects to the phev-ecu, do something will be needed to read that signal.

I can see the volts/amps being supplied to the charger on the CAN bus, frame 0x389.

Now that i have the DBC file for what the charger puts on on the bus i can use this when i go to log on the vehicle, to filter out 1/2 of the traffic.

I also plan on using a signal generator on the control signal set different duty cycles and see if can spot the message going to the charger changing to say the max current allowed from the charger.

There is still a good bit more work to do, but it is looking positive so far.
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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

Dilbert wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:02 pm There is still a good bit more work to do, but it is looking positive so far.
Great info, thanks for sharing :)
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
Dilbert
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

Kevin Sharpe wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:58 pm
Dilbert wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:02 pm There is still a good bit more work to do, but it is looking positive so far.
Great info, thanks for sharing :)
I will put a tap into the EV CAN bus of a working vehicle probably on monday, I have connected the proximit signal up from the J1772, but it doesn't seem to get relayed out via CAN, although maybe as the unit is not charging it doesn't bother telling everyone that the charging cycle is about to quit.

These converters seem to be very widely used; outlander, IMIEV, Peugeot ION, Niro PHEV etc...
pemtek
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

A point to note is the pin numbers on the charger side of the connector are not the same as the pin numbers on the car side of the connectors, I am just on with making a controller to use the outlander charger and inverters in a conversion I am building and I am also making a chademo fast charger using a stack of these chargers. I will share the information when I have got it all up and running in the next couple of weeks.

The dcdc does not seem to be adjustable or maybe I am missing something. The charger output seems happy from about 210v to 420v so it is suitable for most applications.

There is no voltage adjustment only current so the controller just needs to monitor output voltage and step the charge current. Regardless of the set current the pilot signal will limit the charge current automatically.

The pilot signal duty cycle is available on the can bus.

Phil
Dilbert
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

pemtek wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:40 pm A point to note is the pin numbers on the charger side of the connector are not the same as the pin numbers on the car side of the connectors, I am just on with making a controller to use the outlander charger and inverters in a conversion I am building and I am also making a chademo fast charger using a stack of these chargers. I will share the information when I have got it all up and running in the next couple of weeks.

The dcdc does not seem to be adjustable or maybe I am missing something. The charger output seems happy from about 210v to 420v so it is suitable for most applications.

There is no voltage adjustment only current so the controller just needs to monitor output voltage and step the charge current. Regardless of the set current the pilot signal will limit the charge current automatically.

The pilot signal duty cycle is available on the can bus.

Phil
That is great information Phil, good to confirm some of my own findings. So the PHEV ECU takes the pilot signal and relays that over CAN, I was going to connect a signal generator and see what values change. Have you logged any CAN bus data?

Do you know what frame the current setpoint for the charger is located?
Dilbert
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

Updated pinout based on what's on the vehicle.

Pin 1 (Orange) NC on outlander
Pin 2 NC on outlander
Pin 3 (Blue) NC on outlander
Pin 4 DC SW (enables the DC:DC converter, seems to just target 14V when this is high)
Pin 5 CHIN (Serial protocol to EV Remote wifi module)
Pin 6 CAN H (Black)
Pin 7 Sense line for DC to DC converter
Pin 8 IGCT main power to charger
Pin 9 Proximity signal from charger
Pin 10 GND
Pin 11 NC
Pin 12 CHOT (Serial protocol to EV Remote wifi module)
Pin 13 CAN L (Red)
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by zippy500 »

good work, we need a low budget charging solution
pemtek
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

Yes I have it all working and the motor inverters working also. As I said I am making a basic controller with outputs that drive the outlander front and rear inverters and the charger and dcdc and link to a BMS to control the charge rate.

Phil
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

The front inverter and transmission actually has 2 motors with two fairly identical inverters. With the clutch engaged both motors could be used in parallel making a fairly decent power output.

This is a very poor video of the "generator" motor spinning backwards. I did the majority of work on the rear inverter and quickly tested the same commands to the front inverters. The lock in mention in the video was the parking lock which I have now removed and now both motors happily spin together with the clutch locked.



Phil
Dilbert
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

That looks really good, all parts readily available also.

If you can share any of the information you have regarding the EV CAN and what needs to be sent to get the charger operational that would be brilliant.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

I have had it working on the bench with a very rough setup, I am making a controller to do it properly and will release the information once I am not sending people on a road to nowhere as there is also some of the electrical connections to the charger that need handling.

Phil
Dilbert
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

pemtek wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:13 pm I have had it working on the bench with a very rough setup, I am making a controller to do it properly and will release the information once I am not sending people on a road to nowhere as there is also some of the electrical connections to the charger that need handling.

Phil
Yes that sounds good, I took some CAN Logs myself so can see the control signal duty cycle being sent to the charger.

Quick question on bench testing, does it need a battery connected to the HV terminals? or is it happy to deliver current into a suitable sized resistive load like a 2KW heating element?
pemtek
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

I actually did not test it without a battery, I was a little concerned about the voltage spiking and damaging something.

I would be much further on this project but I have been recently been swamped with business changes caused by the coronavirus due to supply from China and also making my own ventilator from a cpap machine.

Phil
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

pemtek wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:08 pm I actually did not test it without a battery, I was a little concerned about the voltage spiking and damaging something.

I would be much further on this project but I have been recently been swamped with business changes caused by the coronavirus due to supply from China and also making my own ventilator from a cpap machine.

Phil
Yes talented people will always be in demand.

Spent a bit of time with the can logs and nothing is jumping out at me yet. I'm wondering if the signal is going via one of the serial busses from phev ecu or remote ecu.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

0x38A, 8, temp, temp, input bus voltage, pilot pwm duty (plain in decimal), charger status

If that makes sense

Phil
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

pemtek wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:03 pm 0x38A, 8, temp, temp, input bus voltage, pilot pwm duty (plain in decimal), charger status

If that makes sense

Phil
The bit I haven't figured out yet is how the charger knows the pilot pwm duty to broadcast in 0x38A, as the j1772 pilot signal goes to the phev ecu. So I assume it is transmitted back over CAN from phev ecu to OBC.
pemtek
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

No the pilot signal goes straight to the charger.

Phil
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

The charger fully controls the charge rate from a single byte in a can command but the maximum is overridden by the pilot signal pwm setting.
Dilbert
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

pemtek wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:42 pm The charger fully controls the charge rate from a single byte in a can command but the maximum is overridden by the pilot signal pwm setting.
Thanks for the info, it's very useful. Yes, I had the prox and pilot signals flipped, so I have changed them back. I replayed the CAN bus frames from the vehicle and at one point I believe I got the charger to try to start a charge.

Do you know which CAN ID contains the byte which sets the max charge rate?
pemtek
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

You only need to send 0x285 and 0x286

0x285 alone will connect the evse but won't charge until you send 0x286

0x286 byte 2 sets the charge current, there is a voltage setting on byte 0 and 1 but that is completely ignored

I am working with someone at the moment to provide a solution to make all the outlander parts to work together from one ecu handling all of the IO so watch this space.

Phil
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

pemtek wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:48 am I am working with someone at the moment to provide a solution to make all the outlander parts to work together from one ecu handling all of the IO so watch this space.

Phil
Hi

Do you intend to use inverter also? I have one Outlander inverter incoming and it would be much easier to make it work through CAN than replacing the main board. But we will do it anyway... just because we can! 8-)
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

pemtek wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:48 am You only need to send 0x285 and 0x286

0x285 alone will connect the evse but won't charge until you send 0x286

0x286 byte 2 sets the charge current, there is a voltage setting on byte 0 and 1 but that is completely ignored

I am working with someone at the moment to provide a solution to make all the outlander parts to work together from one ecu handling all of the IO so watch this space.

Phil
Perfect thanks, that is very useful information. I will let you know if I find any additional information during my testing.

I can see that byte 4 in 0x285 looks like a heartbeat signal incrementing every second, it probably needs this to be correct to hold in the EVSE.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by pemtek »

No a fixed value works just fine.

I already have an outlander motor and inverter mounted in a ep3 civic type r just for testing purposes. Hopefully I will be able to drive it by this time next week.

Phil
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

pemtek wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:39 pm No a fixed value works just fine.

I already have an outlander motor and inverter mounted in a ep3 civic type r just for testing purposes. Hopefully I will be able to drive it by this time next week.

Phil
Looking forward to hearing the results of the civic test.

Definite charger progress being made. I need to review the values I'm sending, as I can get the evse to pull in it's main contactor but it drops out right away. I'm not sure is it because I'm trying to push power into a resistor. I wonder is the charger seeing no battery voltage and faulting out.
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