Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

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arber333
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Hi Dilbert

I have a small problem. I installed my charger and connected it to a 2nd phase next to my Eltek charger.
I sense PP signal with my DUE and it starts to transmitt CAN.
Outlander Charger pulls the EVSE in and i guess both chargers work together at 11A. They should work at 18A though.
Next i disconnected the CAN lines for Eltek charger and i saw a steady 3A from Outlander charger only! I tried to change the code but i cant get it to give more amps.
What do you think is wrong? My code is here: https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... ger-tests/
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

What happens when you just run a single charger?

If the outlander charger is only giving 3A but your commanding much higher it's like you are running in Constant Voltage mode, or you've hit the 420v limit.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Dilbert wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:53 pm What happens when you just run a single charger?

If the outlander charger is only giving 3A but your commanding much higher it's like you are running in Constant Voltage mode, or you've hit the 420v limit.
Well i command 392V and 12A. That means 3920 and 120 in hex no? So my CAN line looks like this:
outframe.data.bytes[0]=0x0F;
outframe.data.bytes[1]=0x50;
outframe.data.bytes[2]=0x78;
outframe.data.bytes[3]=0x37;
outframe.data.bytes[4]=0x00;
outframe.data.bytes[5]=0x00;
outframe.data.bytes[6]=0x0A;
outframe.data.bytes[7]=0x00;

Should i try commanding 355V then, is 392 too much?

A
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Dilbert »

Well you are boosting at that stage, so your charger input current will be higher than the battery current. But at 3A dc battery current I'd imagine the charger will be closer to 5A.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Dilbert wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:33 pm Well you are boosting at that stage, so your charger input current will be higher than the battery current. But at 3A dc battery current I'd imagine the charger will be closer to 5A.
Damn... it wont work no matter how i set my CAN MSG. And to think i tried it dry a week ago and it gave me 8A!
I am begginning to think its my EVSE CP signal. Yet it is no different than a week ago...
I will try to expand it a bit.

EDIT: It was CP signal. When i tested it with my scope it seemed awfull small duty. I verified this when i opened my EVSE. Inside a resistor broke off. It was the same resistor that fixes your EVSE current limit. Of course without this resistor it was set to "ventilate" at 6Aac.
Now that i set this straight i get good 16A from both chargers. I will observe a bit just to be absolutely sure :).
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by JaniK »

Good to hear arber333. Another error solving guide appeared here :)
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

JaniK wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:28 am Good to hear arber333. Another error solving guide appeared here :)
It works good, i get 16A at 388Vdc, so this means 6.2kW of power. Really good! I will try now to use a third Outlander charger here with in the same line with the same commands. See if the two interfeere with one another anyhow. I will not build it in yet because a friend lent it to me for experimenting. That will come later when i am more confident... This should now create 6.2kW + 3.2kW = 9.4kW power on the battery. Plenty enough for me.
There is a slight problem though that i recognise immediately. This charger has a function to pull down EVSE CP signal and this is how it starts EVSE. My Eltek does not do that. Therefore i will be limited to using Outlander charger as my primary single phase charger.

I will connect a single phase cable to my EVSE so when i connect to this i will be loading only one phase in a house which will leave other phase for my wifes Ampera to use. Steady charging through the night or faster charging if we need to go somewhere soon.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Huh! I managed to connect the third charger and connect it to CAN bus and the rest of spagetti. When i connected it to my EVSE i got 15A!
But after some time my EVSE dropped the contactor. I cant connect anything to it anymore.
I am now thinking poor Simple EVSE couldnt supply enough CP signal to TWO chargers and its DCDC released its magic smoke. I will try what happens on my desk...

EDIT: Nope, EVSE is fine. It looks like the first charger shut itself down and wouldnt pull the EVSE in. The second one could do the job, but not in paralell with the first one. Maybe some CAN msg collision?
I also pulled the rest of wires out and repositioned the EVSE plug. Yes the first charger started to react and would feed 8A.
I will experiment some more what happens. It seems like two chargers online start to pull CP but something happens and they release it.
I may make a copy of CP signal with some transistor pair and feed both chargers the amplified version. Of course CP resistors will be pulled in through my circuit.

EDIT2: Yes that is exactly the case. Once the first charger pulls EVSE in voltage on the line falls to some 6V and after the second one pulls it further voltage falls down to 2,5V and at that point both chargers release EVSE because they think it is an error.
Next i took my pulse generator and first made 12V peak to peak function. I got both of the chargers ON! Good. Then i adapted the weave form so it was 5V to 0V PWM as it would be with signal from transistor. If i kept signal at 5V second charger would work good. But if i would lower this to 4V charger would release CP.
I will really have to make a transistor circuit to repeat CP signal from inside my junction box.

A
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

I used simple opto isolated mosfet module with 1K pullup to 12V and it worked immediately. I could vary the power through EVSE button setting and both chargers responded to varrying CP signal.
IMG_20201206_165922.jpg
IMG_20201206_170101.jpg
What is more i also connected Eltek charger on the first phase and together i got 21A which is a little less that usual due to the high SOC value at 390Vdc.
IMG_20201206_165833.jpg
IMG_20201206_170121.jpg
IMG_20201206_172432_HHT.jpg
Next i will work on getting the voltage reports on x389 msg and using that to stop the chargers, Eltek will take care of itself up to 390Vdc. Idea is to stop the two Outlander chargers at 390Vdc and then taper off with Eltek. Maybe later i can even use the voltage info with my fast charging CHADEMO setup.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

OK Dilbert
May i ask you where do you use this variable in your code?
int charger_can_alive=0;

And why you step it up in your conditionals
charger_can_alive++;

It doesnt seem to do anything besides change state and i cant see it in my CAN DUE header code.

Tnx
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

@collin80

Can you help me out Collin. I am using your code from "CANskeleton" file. I am successful in piloting my chargers and BMS and in general i have CAN transmission figured out. However i tried to implement reading CAN from received ID 0x389 and for some reason i cant get it to work.

I declare new variable for voltage
int voltage = 0;
I setup for RX
Can0.watchFor();
I declare frame in loop function
CAN_FRAME incoming;
And put conditional after it
if (Can0.available() > 0) {
Can0.read(incoming);
if(incoming.id==0x389){
voltage=incoming.data.bytes[0] *2 ; //byte0 *2 = voltage, 2V/digit
}


Then i also setup filters within your initialize fuction
else
{//else Initialize CAN0
pinMode(50,OUTPUT);
if (Can0.begin(myVars.datarate,50))
{
Serial.println("Using CAN0 - initialization completed.\n");
//Can0.setNumTXBoxes(3);
Can0.setRXFilter(0, 0x389, 0x389, false);
....


When i run chargers i dont get any reply and when i changed current command from >390 to <390 i get the same result as voltage would be 0.
if(voltage < 390) { // if Charger senses less than 390V
outframe.data.bytes[2]=0x32; // 78=120 12A, 50=80 8A, 32=50 5A, 14=20 2A at 0,1A/bit
}
else {
outframe.data.bytes[2]=0x00;
}

I would just need to read the first byte on 0x389 ID and get its value so that i can condition "not more than 390V" to the chargers. Complete file is attached and renamed to txt.

tnx
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DCDC_outlander.ino.txt
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Hm...

I managed to get ID 0x389 in buffer and read it DOH!
I only needed to declare:
Can0.begin(CAN_BPS_500K);
And comment out previous lines that opt between CAN 0 or 1 in USB interface
// Initialize CAN ports
// if(myVars.CANport==0) initializeCAN(0);
// else initializeCAN(1);


Since i dont know what that achieved vs the previous method i would still like some explanation...

tnx
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by bobby_come_lately »

I have put together a DBC file for anyone wanting to read the CAN bus output of the charger/DC-DC converter in SavvyCan. Not perfect but think I've got all the useful stuff in there.
Attachments
charger_savvy.zip
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Well it seemed i only needed to explicitly declare CAN Begin.
I have charged my car 3x now and chargers reduced in several steps as i programmed.
1. charge with full power available and CP control.
2. after first threshold reduce power to 3A output. This is to gradually take charger to hard limit
3. Hard limit set will not allow charger over this 0A commanded

One could add more if else steps and thresholds but i am content now. Charger will taper down even if there is another charger online.
2A per digit is a little coarse, but if i set limits a=390V and b=392V i get good hysteresis behaviour and in the end 100% SOC is at 391Vdc.
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... e-control/
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Well i have built all 3 chargers into my Pug, filled the system with water and deair it. I must say DCDC can draw about 5A from HV so i think it is capable of about 1800W. I tried to put 2 of them in parallel and connect my 12V PTC heater of 50A. There was a short drop in voltage but it returned to 13,8V immediately. I consider DCDC a very good unit.

Chargers on the other hand wont work well together. Just after i connect power they would ramp up to 21A joint current but immediately they would fall down to 10A and then try to ramp up again. It is like something wouldnt let them keep the power.
I will investigate further. I think it may be the CAN lines. I made a single line and strung connectors out from it. As i remember my own advice i may have used too long lines out of the string, which may cause all sorts of artefacts on the lines. One should never use more than couple cm of lines out from the string. I will try to shorten those lines....

EDIT: It seems i jumped the gun too soon... Current twitching from full power down to 10A was due to almost full battery. My logic board was accepting charger 0x389 ID voltage signal and reducing power down to 3A as battery reached 390Vdc. After a short but wild drive :) i reduced the battery sufficiently so that all chargers were working at full power at 24A! 390Vdc x 24A = 9.3kW which is enough for comfortable every day use.

I highly recommend those charger/DCDC combo; they are quite inexpensive and multiple chargers can be controlled easily.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by bobby_come_lately »

A little help needed if possible from those of you more experienced with charging...

I have the charger hooked up with a Due running Dilbert's code. All hooked into battery pack and DC-DC working fine. Tried connecting it to my Pod Point Type 1 charger that I picked up from Facebook (so true condition unknown). Prox status LED flashes away nicely and as you can see from the screen cap of SavvyCan, everything else looks good...except I'm seeing no AC.

Checked my connections this morning and it's all wired up right on the AC side as far as I can tell. But the Pod Point is flashing green, which either means 'waiting on scheduled charge' or 'finished charging'.

Any suggestions very much welcomed. Appreciate your input.
savvycan.png
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

bobby_come_lately wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:21 am A little help needed if possible from those of you more experienced with charging...

I have the charger hooked up with a Due running Dilbert's code. All hooked into battery pack and DC-DC working fine. Tried connecting it to my Pod Point Type 1 charger that I picked up from Facebook (so true condition unknown). Prox status LED flashes away nicely and as you can see from the screen cap of SavvyCan, everything else looks good...except I'm seeing no AC.

Checked my connections this morning and it's all wired up right on the AC side as far as I can tell. But the Pod Point is flashing green, which either means 'waiting on scheduled charge' or 'finished charging'.

Any suggestions very much welcomed. Appreciate your input.

savvycan.png
This means charger did niot receive correct x285 msg to pull the EVSE CP signal in (pin 9). Or you didnt provide 12V power to charger.
When charger sees correct telegram you hear a click of a relay and CP signal gets pulled to 6V. EVSE will start providing AC. Then you also send x286 msg with voltage and current commands. So you need to see if you have correct wires connected. See also the wire colour in this post.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=628#p8566
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by bobby_come_lately »

arber333 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:35 am This means charger did niot receive correct x285 msg to pull the EVSE CP signal in (pin 9). Or you didnt provide 12V power to charger.
When charger sees correct telegram you hear a click of a relay and CP signal gets pulled to 6V. EVSE will start providing AC. Then you also send x286 msg with voltage and current commands. So you need to see if you have correct wires connected. See also the wire colour in this post.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=628#p8566
Thank you. This has set me on the right path I think. Charger is definitely getting 12V or else it wouldn't be spitting out can messages to populate that screenshot. But the Due isn't getting to the state where it spits out the CAN messages for some reason. Starting the process of working out why now. It's getting the prox state fine but I think it may be something really noddy like the button.

Anyway, off to enjoy the snow for a bit. Thanks again.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

bobby_come_lately wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:43 am Thank you. This has set me on the right path I think. Charger is definitely getting 12V or else it wouldn't be spitting out can messages to populate that screenshot. But the Due isn't getting to the state where it spits out the CAN messages for some reason. Starting the process of working out why now. It's getting the prox state fine but I think it may be something really noddy like the button.

Anyway, off to enjoy the snow for a bit. Thanks again.
DANG! The story is not over i guess. Now i am seeing the same symptomes as you! With two Outlander chargers (plus Eltek) with outputs in parallel i am not able to get chargers to pull EVSE in and start charging. This was quite a shock for me because at my EVSE i can charge at 9.6kW just fine. But while on OEM EVSE i couldnt get chargers to pull CP signal in. But last week it was working just fine with one Outlander and Elcon chargers connected for 6.3kW.
While on EVSE, i connect and activate EVSE with my card. Then i plug connector in and i can hear a click from the car and from EVSE that should start the charge. But after a second i hear another click which obviously throws the EVSE out and i see msg "EVSE is waiting for vehicle response"

I will investigate why that happens...
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by bobby_come_lately »

So, I was having two issues - one solved (ish) one remaining. Of course there may yet be more...

First one was that the sketch on the Due was never progressing past the initial state because my prox reading was so low (the output of the ADC is around 100 whereas the sketch is looking for 200-400). Not sure why this is - super low resistance in my charging handle? I know adherence to the standards is...variable. Anyway, I modified the code to get past that hurdle and got it to progress into the charging phase.

Second issue is that although the due is receiving CAN messages fine, it's not sending them. Pared the sketch down to just the sending functions and a simple loop and they're still not going out. This I'm still trying to get my head around.

Sounds like you have a whole new set of issues though!

##

Update for anyone interested. It was either a bad connection or something weird: swapped the transceiver on my due for a known good one in my SavvyCan system. After swapping, both worked fine (insert shrug emoji here). I had tried two different sets of wires in multiple configurations on them before doing this but there it is.

Will continue experimenting.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

bobby_come_lately wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:37 pm So, I was having two issues - one solved (ish) one remaining. Of course there may yet be more...

First one was that the sketch on the Due was never progressing past the initial state because my prox reading was so low (the output of the ADC is around 100 whereas the sketch is looking for 200-400). Not sure why this is - super low resistance in my charging handle? I know adherence to the standards is...variable. Anyway, I modified the code to get past that hurdle and got it to progress into the charging phase.

Second issue is that although the due is receiving CAN messages fine, it's not sending them. Pared the sketch down to just the sending functions and a simple loop and they're still not going out. This I'm still trying to get my head around.

Sounds like you have a whole new set of issues though!

##

Update for anyone interested. It was either a bad connection or something weird: swapped the transceiver on my due for a known good one in my SavvyCan system. After swapping, both worked fine (insert shrug emoji here). I had tried two different sets of wires in multiple configurations on them before doing this but there it is.

Will continue experimenting.
Yes i had to take my single phase cable apart because it was jumping in and out of connection. It had PP resistor of 1400R with 2.5mm2 cables!!! I replaced it with 330R and now it pulls EVSE in.

Now my second problem is i get 4V peak CP signal on connection. My DIY EVSE is not picky, but i guess OEM EVSE needs 6V and is waiting for connection at 4V.
I Will try to get CP signal into my DUE board and then replicate it for two chargers using 12V and couple of mosfets.

Anyone has any idea how would i replicate CP signal with Arduino? Do i just interrupt sense the PWM and use some digital pins to output the same signal to both chargers? Would that leave enough of computing power for CAN bus and other stuff on DUE?
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Bigpie »

Screenshot 2020-12-31 at 3.20.44 pm.png
Ive done just that over last couple of days arber, https://github.com/jamiejones85/BigPieEVSE used pwm and an opamp to get +12v -12v signal
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
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Outlander charger
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Chademo Charging
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Tnx

I figured charger works good with simple 12V square PWM signal. So i just need to send CP signal into DUE and sense the square weave to output two identical square weaves on two PWM pins. How hard can that be?
EDIT: Or i can just sense PP pin, pull CP in and just bang away with PWM analog write. Not possible to listen to EVSE changing its pace, but it will work :).

EDIT2: Yes, on CP pull in I simply start analogwrite() on PWM pin 2 and with 3V signal i can get the charger with mosfet module to charge at whatever i select for it as duty. Next should be to install two mosfet modules on both chargers and charge using that.
Last i will prepare CP duty reading on my DUE. This should make a fairly simple amps reduction in case EVSE changes its state.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Well, there was a fair bit of modification required. I spent a lot of time trying to get chargers to accept fake CP signal.
First of all i used some mosfet power boards. But mosfet really wouldnt do. I tried all sorts of pullups and signals etc...
IMG_20210101_183850.jpg
But then i accidentaly burned that mosfet element. What to do...? I havent had any mosfets to replace it. I took one MJD122G NPN darlington transistor that i had here and replaced the burned mosfet. To my surprise NPN module worked the first time with pullup 220R and both chargers started on my fake CP signal while DUE board was pulling the real CP signal down with 880R combined resistance.
IMG_20210101_183935.jpg
I took pin D2 which is PWM output and used analogwrite() function to create 1kHz PWM with duty as should be on CP. Of course i got inverted signal because of NPN and pullup. But all i had to do is invert my duty from 30% to 70% and i get good 30% function.
IMG_20210101_185448.jpg
I put both transistor modules down in the box with the chargers. PWM signal is fed on a single line and then transistors split the signal to each charger.
IMG_20210101_184018.jpg
IMG_20210101_185407.jpg

Then i closed up everything and went to test charge on one OEM EVSE to be sure.
IMG_20210101_201723_HHT.jpg
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

I dont know how should i put this...
Someone gave me a DIY cable with presoldered car plug so i only added my own EVSE plug to it. But damn thing had the cable colours reversed! So instead of L1 wire i fitted N wire (by correct gray colour) into my EVSE plug and vice versa. Now i had connected live 400Vac to at least two of the chargers. As you can imagine results were... well nothing spectacular strangely?? I immediately realized something is not good and removed the plug.

But it seems my Eltek charger has died quietly!
Surprisingly both Outlander charger still work!!! I can get 17A from them...
Not that i promote that kind of abuse, but they seem to be well protected.
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