Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Mitsubishi hybrid drive unit hacking
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Mouse
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by Mouse »

LRBen wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:19 pm I did take a look at that link, but unfortunately it looks like it's only for North and South America.
Oh that's a disappointment, I didn't take it that far and just assumed it was global.

Arber333 sounds like he has a good plan for an alternative solution.
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SciroccoEV
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by SciroccoEV »

As previously stated, the connector housings are available from Digikey and Mouser, however the pins are only available in multiples of 10,000.
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RAS_666
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by RAS_666 »

SciroccoEV wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:32 pm As previously stated, the connector housings are available from Digikey and Mouser, however the pins are only available in multiples of 10,000.
How many of us want connectors for these we could do a lot of conversions with 10k pins ;)

On a more serious note I bought some of the connectors a few months back still waiting I presume the 16 weeks will be extended too because of this corona I will try a few pins off other connectors when they eventually arrive!
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by LRBen »

I went down the Liycy cable route in the end. Designed new cover to replace the original connector that will fit an m12 cable gland. Uses the original O ring to seal.
I'll test fit this on the weekend and update this post.
Edit: It fits really well!

STL file is here if anyone wants to try it first. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4557232

Also hoping to have this running from a Prius gen 2 inverter this weekend. Updates to follow...
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2020-07-30 20_00_10- Use).png
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by LRBen »

I have the motor running on the Prius gen 2 inverter. This is just in manual mode for now. Still need to tune it all in and get the throttle plugged in.

But it seems quite smooth once it's moving.

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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by JaniK »

Thats great! I like to watch all types of salvaged parts come to a new life as "hybrids" :mrgreen:
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by pickmeup »

great work on getting the motor turning, what are you using for power? have you got a battery pack or running it from a lab power pack?
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by LRBen »

pickmeup wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:39 pm have you got a battery pack or running it from a lab power pack?
I have it hooked up to the 48v battery in my quad bike. It's the highest voltage battery I have and it means I can also use the precharge system without having to make one up for it.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by Bram »

LRBen wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:24 pm I have the motor running on the Prius gen 2 inverter. This is just in manual mode for now. Still need to tune it all in and get the throttle plugged in.

But it seems quite smooth once it's moving.
Again great work, perhaps you can help me.

I Also hookup up my Outlander rear motor and Gen2 inverter on FOC, but struggling to get the resolverd wired correctly.
today the motor gives a shock one time and then inverter starts to make sound with drawing a lot of current from battery. I used the resolver pinout from Arber333.
How to determine the + and - so to say (or the right phasing) about the resolver?
for example did you tight green and yellow together on pin 2 or red and blue together on pin 2?
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by LRBen »

Bram wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:30 am
Again great work, perhaps you can help me.

I Also hookup up my Outlander rear motor and Gen2 inverter on FOC, but struggling to get the resolverd wired correctly.
today the motor gives a shock one time and then inverter starts to make sound with drawing a lot of current from battery. I used the resolver pinout from Arber333.
How to determine the + and - so to say (or the right phasing) about the resolver?
for example did you tight green and yellow together on pin 2 or red and blue together on pin 2?
I'll take a look tomorrow when I am there and get back to you on that. I can't remember off the top of my head.
I found that on throttle my motor is a bit more unsteady, it will also sometimes not move and draw a bit of current. But I am not sure how much of that is to do with the PWM wires on the control board being wired wrong at the moment.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by Bram »

LRBen wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:46 am
I'll take a look tomorrow when I am there and get back to you on that. I can't remember off the top of my head.
I found that on throttle my motor is a bit more unsteady, it will also sometimes not move and draw a bit of current. But I am not sure how much of that is to do with the PWM wires on the control board being wired wrong at the moment.
Thanks, meanwhile I've figured it out. Made a "mistake". took the colors and pinout from Arber333, but its seems they correspond with wiring colors from the black connector (outside motor), while I looked at the colors from the white resolver connector(inside motor), they have the same colors, but when the white connects to the black connector it switch colors. but we are good, we have a really nice signal right now.

About the PWM wired wrong, was MWU always high and didn't swing as the other 2 phases, with the adjustment its all good.

found also something about throttle set up, that maybe helps, ingnore the can. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=683&hilit=manualid&start=20#p10700

will start tomorrow with the throttle myself.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by RAS_666 »

Looks like bad news on the inverter and motor connectors after about 2 months on back order digikey have just cancelled the order stating that they are no longer being made but replaced by a different part number. The new part number is totally different :?
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by ScottS »

So, update on getting the Outlander inverter to drive the motor. Need to have pin 13 (IGCT) on the Grey connector (D-211) connected to +12V to wake up the inverter. Inverter also appears to monitor pin 12 (RSDN), and reports this on CAN 0x289 byte 8 (not connected is 04, connected is 00)

Have got the inverter hooked up with the motor and can see CAN messages from the inverter.
If we put HV on the inverter, can see this reported on message 0x289 byte 5&6
If we rotate the motor by hand, can see values changing on 0x289 byte 3&4
If you apply force to the motor shaft, you can see values on 0x732 byte 7&8

From info I found on the outlander forum, there appears to be a CAN message which is Torque request - 0x11F, but sending values on this message don't appear to have any effect.

I suspect either I'm sending the incorrect command message, or I'm missing an interlock message or status message from another controller. Have also got the BMU hooked up and can see messages from that, but have tried spoofing those IDs with various values to no avail. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by JaniK »

If you rotate the motor with your hand, that would be same as regen right? So my guess is that it will show as negative torque to ask for regen? I know nothing but it sound like that to me :P consider my option and please correct me if I am wrong, everybody wins :)
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by RAS_666 »

I have done a little messing with the rear inverter here's some of the output messages I have figured and found on other places on the Web and semi comfirmed.
Rear inverter canbus
Rear inverter canbus
(I gave up typing in and just took a photo sorry for being lazy)
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by Mouse »

Does anyone have the intermediate gear reduction ratio?

I know the combined ratio if 7.065:1 but I cant find anything about the intermediate ratio?
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by jalovick »

I've just scored a couple of the Outlander rear drive units, which should arrive in a few weeks, and I want to get things setup so I can test them on the bench to make sure they work.

I'm starting out, so I don't have an inverter, controller, pedal, or anything, except I do have an old Prius battery that I'm not sure of the condition of.

To get them up and running for testing, what would be the minimum that I'd need? I am considering grabbing a Camry Hybrid inverter from a AVV50R (Gen 3), as they're quite cheap (under $250 AUD), and a suitable board from Damien. Is that a good route to go? What else might I need?

Thanks

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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by Mouse »

Obtained my own complete motor + gearbox to take apart so I can investigate the layshaft ratio and construction.

Gears are,
Primary
23:45 = 1.9565
Secondary
18:65 = 3.6111

TOTAL = 7.0652
P9160855.JPG
Motor + Gearbox

P9160856.JPG
Locating pin rusted in place.

P9160857.JPG
Innovative pry-bar improvisation. I did something similar for getting the Toyota Gen 3 inverter case apart.

P9160859.JPG
Gearbox off motor.

P9160863.JPG
Gearbox split apart.

P9160867.JPG
Gears

P9160871.JPG
Close up of spline

P9160872.JPG
Magnets

P9160874.JPG
Magnet Gooo. Nothing I wouldn't expect to see on a used gearbox.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by seanyt »

Nice pictures of the transmission,
The diff certainly doesn't look like conventional Mitsubishi diff.
Does it have a part number or any kinda of details on it?
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by Mouse »

seanyt wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:09 am Nice pictures of the transmission,
Thanks.
seanyt wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:09 am The diff certainly doesn't look like conventional Mitsubishi diff.
I guess it's designed by the motor manufacturer and bought in by Mitsubishi as a single transaxle unit, but that's only a guess.
seanyt wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:09 am Does it have a part number or any kinda of details on it?
Sadly not, no markings at all. Here's a couple of close up photos of it. There were also no identifiable markings on the gearbox castings other than a sticker containing two bar codes.
P9180947.JPG
P9180948.JPG
P9180950.JPG
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by RAS_666 »

Think the gearbox itself is made by GKN wonder if there's an lsd that might fit
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by seanyt »

That was my next question, what from the parts bin will fit, so far nothing i can think of visually.
I know miev evolution 3 uses imiev motors running 300nm and 112kw.

So im hoping these motors will take 120kw for brief periods and an LSD would be ideal.
Otherwise its straight to quaife for another custom EV ATB
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by LRBen »

I'm hoping that this motor is as overengineered as the leaf motor, which has been able to produce around 3 times the rated 100hp.

Assuming that I am planning to see how it would take the upper ends of what my inverter can put out. Somewhere around 140kw. I was thinking about maybe getting an LSD for it also. Would be good to know if there is anything off the shelf that would fit.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by arber333 »

I think motor is capable of at least 100kw for sure. My Acim can dish out 80kW and is the same dimension and specd for 30kW continuous.
If you get properly rated battery you can try to push Prius inverter to 500A and see what happens.
I see one obstacle beeing battery rating and the other rather thin rear driveshafts. I don't really have a lot of confidence in them. Maybe 100kW...
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle

Post by Mouse »

I'm only interested in the primary gear and layshaft. So I'm not planning on using the diff it's self and that part is going to end up in the scrap bin some time reasonably soon. if anyone wants it to measure up let me know and we can exchange some tokens to get it posted off when I'm finished with it.
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