Gen 3 inverter converter control software
- rstevens81
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
A (potential) warning to anyone who wants to use this a Yaris inverter (as stated in Celeron's GitHub) the dc capacitors are rated at 300v (low) and 650v (high) (as stamped on the capacitor casing - attached).
This does also beg the question that if the high side capacitor is 650v then it makes it highly unlikely that the inverter ever runs at 650v.
This does also beg the question that if the high side capacitor is 650v then it makes it highly unlikely that the inverter ever runs at 650v.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Good info thanks. The 650v thing is an internet myth that will probably never die. Along with the 100A "current limit" ....
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
I spotted that when I took mine apart. Making me a bit nervous about using mg* to boost to 400V...rstevens81 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:20 pm A (potential) warning to anyone who wants to use this a Yaris inverter (as stated in Celeron's GitHub) the dc capacitors are rated at 300v (low) and 650v (high) (as stamped on the capacitor casing - attached).
This does also beg the question that if the high side capacitor is 650v then it makes it highly unlikely that the inverter ever runs at 650v.
- celeron55
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
If you read any of Toyota's gen3 or newer publications, they do always say "650V maximum".
The IGBT driver board enforces that voltage limit. If you set the boost converter at a low PWM and just wait, it'll stop when the MG rail reaches about 650V. At high PWM it will overshoot and then you're watching it drain down from some semi scary voltage from 650V up to over 1000V.
Telling it's 650V could be a marketing strategy, or something lazily taken from their safety documents. I think it probably goes to 650V, but only when you absolutely floor the throttle, and their control system is accurate enough for operating right at the limit for brief periods of time.
So who's going to buy a gen3 Prius or Yaris... for science?
The IGBT driver board enforces that voltage limit. If you set the boost converter at a low PWM and just wait, it'll stop when the MG rail reaches about 650V. At high PWM it will overshoot and then you're watching it drain down from some semi scary voltage from 650V up to over 1000V.
Telling it's 650V could be a marketing strategy, or something lazily taken from their safety documents. I think it probably goes to 650V, but only when you absolutely floor the throttle, and their control system is accurate enough for operating right at the limit for brief periods of time.
So who's going to buy a gen3 Prius or Yaris... for science?
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
I think the thing to remember is that inspite of this, it's a high-powered Inverter and a DC-DC so the loss of budget 3 phase charging is not the end of the world as it's still insanely good value.
It is not long ago when an inverter if much lesser power would cost thousands.
I think if you want really high powered 3 phase charging then the poor/rich man's chademo would be a better start (if you have the necessary electrical understanding and experience).
EDIT: I am talking about the Yaris inverters here, [Prius inverters all good!] Sorry Celeron
It is not long ago when an inverter if much lesser power would cost thousands.
I think if you want really high powered 3 phase charging then the poor/rich man's chademo would be a better start (if you have the necessary electrical understanding and experience).
EDIT: I am talking about the Yaris inverters here, [Prius inverters all good!] Sorry Celeron
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
It works fine as a charger. The MG side is still rated for continuous 650V, even in the Yaris one. You need a lower voltage battery for it of course. And if you feel you'd rather have more margin for error, that's fine, one can always use something else. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
I just did a 35 minute 18kW 3 phase charging session earlier today using the Prius gen3 inverter at 10kHz. Yes, it's still in one piece.
I just did a 35 minute 18kW 3 phase charging session earlier today using the Prius gen3 inverter at 10kHz. Yes, it's still in one piece.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
I'm looking at single phase charging (240V AC rectified is ~340V). My intention was to use the MG inputs then the buck/boost converter to boost up to battery voltage (100S in my case so aroung 415V) but seeing the 300V on the cap in the Yaris inverter has made me think twice.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Yeah that's correct. The Prius gen3 inverter would be able to handle that but as there's quite some cost difference from Yaris to Prius including external charging components, sometimes you can find an actual single phase charger with the same budget. Three phase not so much - that's where this solution shines.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
I'm having trouble getting a bootloader burnt on the atmega. Is there anything unusual in the procedure?
I've tried using an UNO as ISP and USBTinyISP.
I've got the board powered using 12v, the ground is connected from the arduino/ISP but not the 5v. Checked the wiring multiple times.
I've used the Ardunio IDE to burn a bootloader on to the UNO with the USBTinyISP so I know that's fine.
Below is the command generated by the IDE
and the response (when I've added an extra -vvvv)
Any suggestions?
I've tried using an UNO as ISP and USBTinyISP.
I've got the board powered using 12v, the ground is connected from the arduino/ISP but not the 5v. Checked the wiring multiple times.
I've used the Ardunio IDE to burn a bootloader on to the UNO with the USBTinyISP so I know that's fine.
Below is the command generated by the IDE
Code: Select all
avrdude -Cavrdude.conf -v -patmega328p -cusbtiny -e -Ulock:w:0x3F:m -Uefuse:w:0xFD:m -Uhfuse:w:0xDE:m -Ulfuse:w:0xFF:m
Code: Select all
avrdude: Using SCK period of 10 usec
CMD: [ac 53 00 00] [00 00 00 00]
CMD: [ac 53 00 00] [00 00 00 00]
CMD: [ac 53 00 00] [00 00 00 00]
CMD: [ac 53 00 00] [00 00 00 00]
avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1
Double check connections and try again, or use -F to override
this check.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Very good!celeron55 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:08 pm It works fine as a charger. The MG side is still rated for continuous 650V, even in the Yaris one. You need a lower voltage battery for it of course. And if you feel you'd rather have more margin for error, that's fine, one can always use something else. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
I just did a 35 minute 18kW 3 phase charging session earlier today using the Prius gen3 inverter at 10kHz. Yes, it's still in one piece.
I have tested Yaris control hardware up to 400Vdc on the battery side and up to 610Vdc at MG side. This is as far as firmware will feedback.
I had the cap off at the time true! While i could have it on i decide to leave off just because i had better access. I think i saved myself some magic smoke.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
If you have space you could use some elcaps or a smaller HV film cap (100uF) on the battery side. You would just need to cut the + connections from that 300Vdc rated cap. Granted it would look somewhat odd, but i found out that on the output side you dont need much capacitance. Battery acts as a large elcap by its own. 100uF is enough to smooth the switching noise in/out the inductor and since you would use 3phase you get HV smoothing naturaly since the phases overlap.doobedoobedo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:31 pm I'm looking at single phase charging (240V AC rectified is ~340V). My intention was to use the MG inputs then the buck/boost converter to boost up to battery voltage (100S in my case so aroung 415V) but seeing the 300V on the cap in the Yaris inverter has made me think twice.
A
- NiHaoMike
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
An alternative is to connect the output of the bridge rectifier from the positive of the low side to the positive of the high side.
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- Bigpie
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
@celeron55 should the #TEST_BOOST flag in your code work? Just wondering if it's a problem with my setup or that's not working in your code at the moment.
Ive done the above and connected 12v to DC BUS 2 but not getting output on DC bus 1.
I am able to buck from DC Bus 2 to 1 by adjusting the PWM on pin 10 so my setup at least partially works.
Code: Select all
#define TEST_BOOST true
#define TEST_BOOST_VOLTAGE 30
I am able to buck from DC Bus 2 to 1 by adjusting the PWM on pin 10 so my setup at least partially works.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
"#define TEST_BOOST true" will boost using 1% PWM up to 400V. Boosting should turn on and off every 500ms. I think it should work, as I don't remember breaking it, but I can't test at the moment.Bigpie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:05 pm @celeron55 should the #TEST_BOOST flag in your code work? Just wondering if it's a problem with my setup or that's not working in your code at the moment.
Ive done the above and connected 12v to DC BUS 2 but not getting output on DC bus 1.Code: Select all
#define TEST_BOOST true #define TEST_BOOST_VOLTAGE 30
I am able to buck from DC Bus 2 to 1 by adjusting the PWM on pin 10 so my setup at least partially works.
There's no TEST_BOOST_VOLTAGE in the code. If you want to change the maximum test voltage or change something else as you sure might when testing, you can edit the test code at the beginning of loop().
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
TEST_BOOST_VOLTAGE is what I added to do just that. Bucking works (not tested using your software) but not boosting, looks like I might need to dig further and spend some time to understand timers and registers.
Am I right is assuming boosting is just doing PWM on pin 9 instead of 10 or am I reading this code wrong?
Am I right is assuming boosting is just doing PWM on pin 9 instead of 10 or am I reading this code wrong?
Code: Select all
...
if(input_voltage_V < DESIRED_OUPUT_VOLTAGE && ((millis()/1000)&1)==0){
set_pwm_boost_active(ICR1 * 0.01);
} else {
set_pwm_inactive();
}
...
static void set_pwm_boost_active(uint16_t lowswitch_ontime)
{
if(!current_sensor_zero_offsets_calibrated)
return;
if(lowswitch_ontime > ICR1)
lowswitch_ontime = ICR1;
uint16_t lowswitch_offtime = ICR1 - lowswitch_ontime;
#if 0 //ignored
const float deadtime_ns = 10000;
const uint16_t deadtime = (uint16_t)((float)deadtime_ns/(1.0/16e6*1e9));
set_ontimes(lowswitch_offtime, lowswitch_offtime - deadtime);
#else
set_ontimes(lowswitch_offtime, 0);
#endif
}
// Times are referenced to ICR1 value (ICR1 = 100%, 0 = 0%)
static void set_ontimes(uint16_t lowswitch_offtime, uint16_t highswitch_ontime)
{
// OC1A: Low side
OCR1A = lowswitch_offtime;
// OC1B: High side
OCR1B = highswitch_ontime;
// We need to rewind TCNT1 to OCR1A so that the lowside gets turned off.
// Otherwise it will stay on for a full PWM cycle until it reaches the
// lowered OC1A on the next cycle and by that point we've had quite the
// boost pulse. At 10kHz such a pulse will create about 50V of extra voltage
// on the MG side.
if(TCNT1 >= OCR1A)
TCNT1 = OCR1A-1;
}
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- celeron55
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Yes, it is supposed to just do PWM on the other pin. Do you have a scope or something handy to measure it directly on the atmega328 pin?Bigpie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:51 am TEST_BOOST_VOLTAGE is what I added to do just that. Bucking works (not tested using your software) but not boosting, looks like I might need to dig further and spend some time to understand timers and registers.
Am I right is assuming boosting is just doing PWM on pin 9 instead of 10 or am I reading this code wrong?
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
So as a test I've pulled the board out, set 9 and 10 at 50% duty.
Output from the pins looks good. I've followed this to TR8 and TR9 then the R88 and R87 to the 50way connector, both the same
Output from the pins looks good. I've followed this to TR8 and TR9 then the R88 and R87 to the 50way connector, both the same
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
That looks ok assuming the IGBT driver board is disconnected. Once connected it will supply the 5V pull-up to the lines. If it doesn't supply 5V, that means it's detecting a fault in the IGBT.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Both look good when hooked up. I'll put the inverter back together tomorrow and stuck a voltage on the DC bus and see if I get any boosting with just setting the PWM and 50%.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
I must be doing something wrong.
I've got 83v on the RHS side as in the photo. I've got a multimeter on LHS (1 & 2) an no load
I've checked BOOST_FAULT and it remains at 5v.
I've noticed a lower value for PWM results in a higher percentage PWM.
PWM = 50 gives 80%
PWM = 200 gives 20%
I must be missing something. I don't seem to be able to buck or boost
I've got 83v on the RHS side as in the photo. I've got a multimeter on LHS (1 & 2) an no load
Code: Select all
|. RHS (in). |. LHS (out). |. Pin 9 PWM. |. Pin 10 PWM. |
|. 83 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 83 | 0 | 50% | 0 |
| 83 | 83 | 0 | 50% |
| 83 | 83 | 0 | 20% |
| 83 | 0 | 20% | 0 |
| 83 | 0 | 80% | 0 |
I've noticed a lower value for PWM results in a higher percentage PWM.
PWM = 50 gives 80%
PWM = 200 gives 20%
I must be missing something. I don't seem to be able to buck or boost
Code: Select all
#include <Arduino.h>
#define DCBUS1_PIN A0
#define DCBUS2_PIN A1
#define BOOST_LOW_SWITCH_PIN 9
#define BOOST_HIGH_SWITCH_PIN 10
int PWMDuty = 0; //pwm duty cycle
void setup() {
Serial.begin(115200);//
TCCR1B = TCCR1B & B11111000 | B00000010; // set timer 1 divisor to 8 for PWM frequency of 3921.16 Hz
pinMode(9, OUTPUT); //boost low side
pinMode(10, OUTPUT); //boost Hi side
pinMode(A0, INPUT); //boost Hi side
pinMode(A1, INPUT); //boost Hi side
analogWrite(9,0); //low side off
analogWrite(10,0); //low side off
PWMDuty=0;
}
// the loop function runs over and over again forever
void loop() {
PWMDuty=20;
// analogWrite(10,PWMDuty);
analogWrite(9, PWMDuty); //low side off
delay(1500);
}
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- Bigpie
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Right, now I can buck from dc bus 2 down to dc bus 1. Is this thing able to buck and boost in both directions?
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Any progress on outputting 240v AC from the Inverter? My interest is for the USA grid, 240v AC 60 Hz. The inverter would supply AC mains current to my home from a 7kw to 10kw Li battery pack.
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
So I was running the prius3charger_buck (latest version), and all was well. I had single phase connected through a lightbulb, to MG1 (1&3) it light briefly and went out. Using TEST_BUCK = true.
I turned the mains power off and when I turned it off I heard a click sound from the inverter. Now when I turn mains back on the bulb stays on. Any clues what I've done and what I've killed?
I turned the mains power off and when I turned it off I heard a click sound from the inverter. Now when I turn mains back on the bulb stays on. Any clues what I've done and what I've killed?
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- celeron55
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Re: Gen 3 inverter converter control software
Do some continuity measurements and you'll probably find out. Definitely sounds like the converter high or low side died.