Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Topics concerning the Toyota and Lexus inverter drop in boards
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Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by johu »

I want to start brainstorming on the adapter board for this inverter: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Gen2_Board

So, recap:
  1. It has 2 inverters, the stronger one capable of 400A or so
  2. Uses 1200V IGBTs
  3. It has a buck converter (seen from the inverter side to the battery)
  4. It has a DC/DC converter HV -> 12V that runs independently down to ~150V, up to 300V?
  5. It has a 3rd auxiliary inverter that also runs independently but is not yet figured out
The adapter board will take care of 1 and 2.

I do consider sticking to Toyotas original design and locate the logic board OUTSIDE of the inverter because there are no mounting points inside of it. You could stick it onto the main cap with some hot snod, but eeh...
I'll have to check whether adapter + V3 mainboard fit in a ModICE enclosure. I would use the 20+20 version and loose 6 of the 26 controller pins. 12V/GND come from the inverter, emcy_stop, mprot, and 2 outputs will be dropped.

Software-wise I'd just add a new "pwmpol" option like "unipolar" that only enables the high side pins when driving and uses one low side pin when charging. Inverter charging code can be used as is I suppose, it already reads both current sensors, takes the absolute larger value and filters it.

The adapter board would
  1. Get ignition 12V from 2-pole connector inside the inverter
  2. Enable inverter with MSDN using DC switch output
  3. Tie GCNV and GINV to GND
  4. Run MG2 inverter (MUU, MVU, MWU) with the 3 high-side signals
  5. Multiplex both MG1 and MG2 current sensors onto the il1, il2 inputs - Switch inputs by means of a charge signal and a relay?
  6. Read MG2 inverter temperature from MIVT
  7. Read bus voltage from VH
  8. Run buck converter from phase 2 lowside output
  9. Enable buck converter with CSDN signal - when?
  10. Route MFIV to desat input
Now, questions
5. To all analog people ;) is there a more elegant way to always have the current with the larger absolute magnitude show up on the output?
6. Temperature curve?
9. Could the buck converter remain permanently enabled?

So the kit would consist of:
  • 32-pole inverter connector
  • 2-pole inverter 12V power connector
  • 2x20 pin Molex connector for the ModICE enclosure
  • Appropriate cable
  • The ModICE enclosure (20+20)
  • Adapter board
  • V3 main board /w wifi
Altogether this would make a nice inverter, DC/DC and HV charger for ~200V systems. The power factor will be rather poor for 1-phase charging though.

Final question: does anyone feel like making a ModICE compatible adapter board in KiCAD? I can draw the schematic if needed.



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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by Jack Bauer »

I have a few modice enclosures here. I'll do a quick test and see if a v3 mainboard will fit on top of a lexus vcu board:)
I'm going to need a hacksaw
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by Jack Bauer »

Mainboard about 2mm too wide to fit an me mx enclosure :(
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by SciroccoEV »

How about automatically setting software deadtime to zero when selecting unipolar PWM, since it's handled in the hardware.

You could add another input to the current sensor level shifting circuit. Since the current signal from the unused inverter should be zero, it just won't add to the output.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by konstantin8818 »

johu wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:16 am The adapter board would
Get ignition 12V from 2-pole connector inside the inverter
Isn't that two pole connector for incoming 12V? As on Damien's board pin that connects to this connector marked as "output".
It would be great to have dual motor control, and use two discreet MGRs as AWD ~100HP system, so they will work at lower ratings to prevent overheat and overload on relatively weak gears.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by ZooKeeper »

To Johu,

By Buck to you mean the DC-DC or something else like a regen feature (I thought that was already there) or 240vac single for charging?

The DC-DC will work into the low 100V range, but I have been unable to determine the cut off exactly.

I-9 (12v +/-) connection in the inverter is the only 12v connection in or out I have found under the lid, so an "Ignition" circuit is needed for the board, inverter and dc-dc enable.

I might be off the reservation, but my goal is to mirror the functionality Damien tested: 3ph controller for MG2, line-voltage charging (120vac and/or 240vac single phase) on MG1 and regen via MG2. HV to 12v DC-DC functionality is already 100% there needing only a 12v enable signal :)

These Gen2 Inverters are soo damned good at what they do and "cheap", it's a shame to scrap any. The Gen3 inverters have gone WAY up in price in the USA due to a number of failures and a Toyota recall. If the recall was not done, they can't be sold except for "scrap" and that is limiting supply.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by RetroZero »

This is awesome news and amazing ideas. Wow, potential!
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by johu »

Jack Bauer wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:19 am Mainboard about 2mm too wide to fit an me mx enclosure :(
ok, so either I shrink the main board by 2mm, or find another enclosure, or reconsider putting it inside the inverter. Thanks for checking, anyway!
SciroccoEV wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:30 am How about automatically setting software deadtime to zero when selecting unipolar PWM, since it's handled in the hardware.
Yes that makes much sense.
SciroccoEV wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:30 am You could add another input to the current sensor level shifting circuit. Since the current signal from the unused inverter should be zero, it just won't add to the output.
Cool, simple.
konstantin8818 wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:40 am Isn't that two pole connector for incoming 12V? As on Damien's board pin that connects to this connector marked as "output".
It would be great to have dual motor control, and use two discreet MGRs as AWD ~100HP system, so they will work at lower ratings to prevent overheat and overload on relatively weak gears.
Yes what I mean is you'd supply your inverter with ignition 12V and that would be spliced off to also power the logic.
I guess dual motor would mean dual logic for now. I don't plan to develop a bespoke dual motor brain board.
ZooKeeper wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:50 pm By Buck to you mean the DC-DC or something else like a regen feature (I thought that was already there) or 240vac single for charging?
No regen is plainly implemented via the inverter. What I mean is exactly like you write below:
ZooKeeper wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:50 pm I might be off the reservation, but my goal is to mirror the functionality Damien tested: 3ph controller for MG2, line-voltage charging (120vac and/or 240vac single phase) on MG1 and regen via MG2. HV to 12v DC-DC functionality is already 100% there needing only a 12v enable signal :)
So MG1 either rectifies (for 230V world) 230V 1-phase to 320V DC or 400V 3-phase to 570V DC. Then the buck converter bucks it down to whatever battery voltage. So obviously the battery voltage must be well below 300V. 120V for yo yanks is not going to cut it I'm afraid as it only rectifies to 170V DC.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by ZooKeeper »

johu wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:32 pm So MG1 either rectifies (for 230V world) 230V 1-phase to 320V DC or 400V 3-phase to 570V DC. Then the buck converter bucks it down to whatever battery voltage. So obviously the battery voltage must be well below 300V. 120V for yo yanks is not going to cut it I'm afraid as it only rectifies to 170V DC.
Perfect! Most residential power is 240vac off the mains, so almost everyone has it in their garage and huge cabling is not needed as with 120vac for similar power.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by konstantin8818 »

Does charging thrue MG1 and buck/boost converter means that battery will be connected to inverter assembly and accidental car moving will be prevented only by the means of main board's software?
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by ZooKeeper »

Looks like we have about 4" x 6" x 1" (100mm x 150mm x 25mm) inside between the capacitors and underside of the lid :)
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

ZooKeeper wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:02 pmPerfect! Most residential power is 240vac off the mains, so almost everyone has it in their garage and huge cabling is not needed as with 120vac for similar power.
While 240v is there, being restricted to 240v massively limits opportunistic charging. Which, if Prius's are going to be on relatively budget conversions, means they might need opportunistic charging somewhat often.

You can find 120v outlets everywhere. You can street-charge off of 120v and an extension cord. Ditto for at work lots of places (and anywhere that has cold-weather plugs). I don't think I've ever seen a 240v plug in the wild, you'd have to charge at home. Other than a few weird homes that had laundry in the garage, I've never seen a 240v plug there unless a homeowner added it to their shop. Certainly not standard.

It is what it is, if it won't work with 120v it won't work. But, if there's a way to make it work I think 95% of Gen2 users are going to prefer it, regularly.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by ZooKeeper »

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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by Isaac96 »

Why not just use a 120/240 transformer?
Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Simran-AC-500-Vo ... =hi&sr=1-4
Although that one is only 500w. Maybe a microwave transformer could be rewound with the right wire?
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Isaac96 wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:18 amAlthough that one is only 500w. Maybe a microwave transformer could be rewound with the right wire?
Fun fact, the reason that anyone knows about rewinding microwave transformers, is because I taught some famous youtubers who then popularized it :p. Shameless plug:



An MOT is good for ~800w, so you could chain a pair of them together and yeah, you could charge. You just adjust the turns ratio.

Except that MOTs are designed as cheap as possible. Without airflow, even with zero load they'll get hot enough to soften enamel. This makes them great for use in high intermittant power projects (like spot welders, arc welders, arc furnaces, etc)... but not great at continuous load things (like charging an EV battery). To handle constant loads you have to massively derate them.

While you can get ~100w/lb (/kg? it's been a long time) out of a MOT short term, I don't know that I'd push 30w/lb long term.

1800w = 60lbs of transformer, about the size of a toaster.

I mean, *I* will do it, but I don't know that it's a good idea for anyone else.

And for that matter, I'd just leave the magnetic shunts in (they halfassedly limit current) and charge the battery directly off of it by setting the turns ratio so the rectified result matches the peak battery capacity.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by johu »

Problem with this inverter is that you can't control the IGBTs individually, so you can't pull this trick.

Of course you could design your battery voltage to be below 170V. Not too far below to keep the DC/DC converter happy.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by johu »

ZooKeeper wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:40 pm Looks like we have about 4" x 6" x 1" (100mm x 150mm x 25mm) inside between the capacitors and underside of the lid :)
Cool thanks for testing that out. 25mm would even house adapter + brain board assembly.

What do people think, would it be more practical to have the logic board located outside the inverter or inside?
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by Jack Bauer »

I'd vote for outside.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by RetroZero »

With Damien, I vote for outside. There's enough electronics to cool down as it is under that cover....
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by konstantin8818 »

Would also vote for outside. Some inverters are being sold with piece of wiring harness with OEM sealant and 32 pin connector(as mine is). So all you need to do is to connect board to it and inverter assebly remains sealed and no need to wire all auxularies inside of inverter enclosure.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by ZooKeeper »

johu wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:22 am Problem with this inverter is that you can't control the IGBTs individually, so you can't pull this trick.

Of course you could design your battery voltage to be below 170V. Not too far below to keep the DC/DC converter happy.
But with 240vac, we could get nearly 320vdc rectified and that would work for anything in the <300vdc range, yes?

The inverter lid on our 2005 Prius does not get very warm, stays cool in the colder months and is basically underhood temps in the summer. Still, that is HOT for electronics and by design, there is no airflow due to being sealed, which is a good thing. So yes, off board is likely the best solution, I agree.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by johu »

Yes 240V is easy, only 120V limits your battery voltage.

So I guess the democratic vote for "outside" is pretty obvious. I consider redesigning the main board to be 2mm narrower. I might use a lower speced 5V regulator to save board space. It only supplies the logic anyway and we have seen even the 3A version has issues supplying the gate drivers when they have to do heavy duty.
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by konstantin8818 »

johu wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:48 pm I consider redesigning the main board to be 2mm narrower.
I hope, pinout pattern will remain untouched? For those who already bought your board? :o
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by johu »

konstantin8818 wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:37 pm I hope, pinout pattern will remain untouched? For those who already bought your board? :o
Yes I think I'll remove 5V from the PWM header though. Any issues with that?
Of course since this is open source, spare parts are available indefinitely - just get it made 8-)
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Re: Prius Gen2 adapter board development thread

Post by konstantin8818 »

johu wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:49 pm Yes I think I'll remove 5V from the PWM header though. Any issues with that?
I guess no issues. Just for safety reasons I'm hoping every critical part would be "bolt-on" and fabricated by professionals, instead monkey with solder iron as I am myself :D
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