GS450H Discussion

Topics concerning the Toyota and Lexus inverter drop in boards
xp677
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by xp677 »

Domt177 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:24 pm
xp677 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:38 pm Yep, the GS has a solenoid as part of the shifter assembly. For a bare transmission, you don't get that.

Since I used a motor to move in/out of park, I do the lockout in software (I take the two brake pedal sensors as inputs).

I'm not sure how you'd implement a lockout solenoid, to be honest, it might be best to find a suitable shifter assembly from an existing car (maybe a Ford or GM or something common/cheap to play around with).
What sort of motor do you use to move in and out of park, trying to find one now (maybe you could send me the one you use)
I used a window motor from a 1998 Audi A4 (looks like offside/ right hand side). I made sure to get one with some wiring attached.

These motors have a control PCB inside with two relays and some various components, I stripped the components out and wired the relay coils to two of the pins on the connector. This gave me CW / CCW control without having to add my own relays or driver.

I bonded a steel crank onto the output shaft with some epoxy, and made up a linkage to connect it to the transmission.

I chose the window motor because they are cheap and powerful enough. I couldn't find a suitable solenoid. The motor cost something like £5 from eBay.

Video here: https://imgur.com/9qusPSo

Here's the code I used. This is not compatible with the VCU, but it works fine for my application. You can maybe use it to get started? Sorry, I don't have time to talk you through it.

Code: Select all

//Parking Lock
#define LOCK_PARK 0
#define LOCK_NEUTRAL 1
#define LOCK_NEITHER 2
#define LOCK_ERROR 3
#define VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW 1 //speed below which gear shift / park lock will happen
#define VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_HIGH 10 //speed above which prnd input is ignored
byte parking_lock = 2;
bool shifting = 0;


void gear_selection()
{
  if (prnd_gear == current_gear)return; //nothing to do

  if (veh_speed_kph > VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_HIGH || veh_speed_kph < -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_HIGH) //if above certain speed, ignore input
  {
    prnd_gear = current_gear; //cancel shifter selection of moving
    return;
  }

  else if (brake_pressed) //new gear has been selected, and we are below the required speed, and brake pedal is pressed
  {
    //read park lock state
    if (!digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_NEUTRAL;
    else if (digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && !digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_PARK;
    else if (digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_NEITHER;
    else if (!digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && !digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_NEITHER;

    if (current_gear == GEAR_PARK || shifting) //currently in park, request to come out of park
    {
      shifting = 1;
      if (veh_speed_kph < VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW && veh_speed_kph > -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW)
      {
       if (parking_lock == LOCK_PARK || parking_lock == LOCK_NEITHER)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_neutral, 1);
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_park, 0);
        }
        if (parking_lock == LOCK_NEUTRAL)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_neutral, 0);
          current_gear = prnd_gear; //after parking lock has finished, update the current gear
          shifting = 0;
        }
      }
      return;
    }

    if (prnd_gear == GEAR_PARK || shifting) //currently not in park, request to go into park
    {
      shifting = 1;
      current_gear = GEAR_NEUTRAL;
      if (veh_speed_kph < VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW && veh_speed_kph > -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW)
      {
       if (parking_lock == LOCK_NEUTRAL || parking_lock == LOCK_NEITHER)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_neutral, 0);
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_park, 1);
        }
        if (parking_lock == LOCK_PARK)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_park, 0);
          current_gear = prnd_gear;
          shifting = 0;
        }
      }
      return;
    }

    if (current_gear != GEAR_PARK && prnd_gear != GEAR_PARK) //not in park or going into park
    {
      Serial.println("changing gear (N/R/D)");
      shifting = 1; //this sets torque to zero
      if (veh_speed_kph < VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW && veh_speed_kph > -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW)
      {
        current_gear = prnd_gear;
        shifting = 0;
      }
      return;
    }
  }
}
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slanceley
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by slanceley »

ggeter wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:35 pm GS450h transmission oil pump bolts and gasket...

Bolts (4) 90080-10197 $2.76 ea
Gasket (1) 35142-30010 $14
Has anyone got any suggestions for where to source these oil pump bolts, ideally in the UK (found a US website asking for $50 to post them here!)

Possibly there's an obvious solution I'm missing, like just ordering bolts of similar dimensions/specs?

Btw the gasket you mentioned is a rubbery plastic thing, i ordered mine from an official Lexus parts placed here in the UK...
20210130_130718.jpg
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by slanceley »

mdrobnak wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:53 pm Added to https://openinverter.org/wiki/Lexus_GS450h_Inverter
Hi mdrobnak. I'm a bit of a newbie to this forum, could i ask your advice? I'm refurbishing the oil pump for the Lexus GS450H transmission too and having to find details of replacement parts. Is there some way I can help make this information available to the wiki too?
Trying to record it all with photos in my project thread, in case that's useful.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by mdrobnak »

slanceley wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:47 pm
mdrobnak wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:53 pm Added to https://openinverter.org/wiki/Lexus_GS450h_Inverter
Hi mdrobnak. I'm a bit of a newbie to this forum, could i ask your advice? I'm refurbishing the oil pump for the Lexus GS450H transmission too and having to find details of replacement parts. Is there some way I can help make this information available to the wiki too?
Trying to record it all with photos in my project thread, in case that's useful.
In the forum, on the top you should see a button for Wiki. Your forum login should work for that and you can edit any page on there. :)

-Matt
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slanceley
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by slanceley »

Thanks, I will have a go. I suppose if anyone else think's it's irrelevant or incorrect, they'll amend it?
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

slanceley wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:56 pm
ggeter wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:35 pm GS450h transmission oil pump bolts and gasket...

Bolts (4) 90080-10197 $2.76 ea
Gasket (1) 35142-30010 $14
Has anyone got any suggestions for where to source these oil pump bolts, ideally in the UK (found a US website asking for $50 to post them here!)

Possibly there's an obvious solution I'm missing, like just ordering bolts of similar dimensions/specs?

Btw the gasket you mentioned is a rubbery plastic thing, i ordered mine from an official Lexus parts placed here in the UK...20210130_130718.jpg
Rubbery plastic? Mine is very stiff. Odd.

You may be able to buy bolts from a local fastener supplier. Nothing too special about them that I can see. You want me to try and measure them for you?
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

slanceley wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:56 pm
ggeter wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:35 pm GS450h transmission oil pump bolts and gasket...

Bolts (4) 90080-10197 $2.76 ea
Gasket (1) 35142-30010 $14
Btw the gasket you mentioned is a rubbery plastic thing, i ordered mine from an official Lexus parts placed here in the UK...20210130_130718.jpg
Just looked at my gasket again, and definitely metal. Like anodized aluminum is how it feels. Surface is black, but edges are shiny.

The bolts have an '11' on the hex head. Head flat to flat measures 11.8 mm. Bolt length top of head to end is 36.8 mm. Thread part only length is 30 mm. Thread peak to peak width appears to be 1 mm but don't trust my eyes on that. I count 8 threads per 10 mm. There are 9 peaks per 10 mm. I count 16 threads, 17 peaks in 20 mm

Someone out there who knows their fasteners knows what this is...

Edit: yes, I forgot to measure the diameter.... will do that once I get back to the garage.

Edit2: Got it... diameter 7.8 mm across top of threads
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by xp677 »

Bolts are probably just regular M8, 1.25mm pitch, 35mm long.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

xp677 wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:55 am Bolts are probably just regular M8, 1.25mm pitch, 35mm long.
Makes sense to me. 1.25 x 16 = 20 so that works out.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by slanceley »

Brilliant, thank you guys!
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by PacEmaker »

Is anyone here with a known good GS450h transmission able to take mΩ readings of the stators in MG1 and MG2 for me?

Mine measure rather uneven and I'd like to compare with a known good example in case I melt an inverter & harness powering up a bad stator.
Geoff

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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by TonyV »

OK I just measured mine, still sitting on the bench.

Room temp was about 0 Celsius
Using Pro quality Fluke MultiMeter
MG1
L1-L2 = .2 ohms
L2-L3 = .2 ohms
L1-L3 = .2 ohms

MG2
L1-L2 = .3ohms
L2-L3 = .3ohms
L3-L1 = .3ohms
I'll figure this out sooner or later
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by PacEmaker »

TonyV wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:48 am OK I just measured mine, still sitting on the bench.

Room temp was about 0 Celsius
Using Pro quality Fluke MultiMeter
MG1
L1-L2 = .2 ohms
L2-L3 = .2 ohms
L1-L3 = .2 ohms

MG2
L1-L2 = .3ohms
L2-L3 = .3ohms
L3-L1 = .3ohms
Thanks for taking the trouble to measure those Tony but that's probably just cable or probe resistance you're reading there. It requires a milli-ohm meter to read the stators, which is why I asked for mΩ readings. I do appreciate your time taken to help though, this is a great forum full of helpful people!
Geoff

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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by TonyV »

You are asking for the stator winding resistance right?
Or you asking for resistance from winds to aluminium case of transmission? This number should be above 100meg ohms.

Those readings were taken directly of the electrical posts of MG1 and MG2.
I had removed the cables going to MG1 and MG2 so there wouldn't be any false readings
I'll figure this out sooner or later
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by PacEmaker »

TonyV wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:53 pm You are asking for the stator winding resistance right?
Or you asking for resistance from winds to aluminium case of transmission? This number should be above 100meg ohms.

Those readings were taken directly of the electrical posts of MG1 and MG2.
I had removed the cables going to MG1 and MG2 so there wouldn't be any false readings
That's quite right Tony, stator winding DC resistance and you're absolutely right to remove cables so that the readings you took would be accurate if you had used a milli-ohm meter. Stator winding resistance is measured in milli-ohms so your meter is not designed for that purpose. I realise I'm asking a lot to find someone here on the forum that has access to a milli-ohm meter but that's the only way to accurately measure these things that I know of.
Geoff

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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by NiHaoMike »

PacEmaker wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:00 pm That's quite right Tony, stator winding DC resistance and you're absolutely right to remove cables so that the readings you took would be accurate if you had used a milli-ohm meter. Stator winding resistance is measured in milli-ohms so your meter is not designed for that purpose. I realise I'm asking a lot to find someone here on the forum that has access to a milli-ohm meter but that's the only way to accurately measure these things that I know of.
All you need is a high current source and a sensitive voltmeter, then let Ohm's Law do the rest: R = V / I. A good way to get such a high current source on a budget (assuming you don't already have a high current bench PSU) is to use the 3.3V or 5V line of an old PC PSU and some resistance wire as a ballast to keep the current to a reasonable value. Get a shunt so you'll know the actual current.

BTW, if you work it out, the meter doesn't even have to be accurate if you use the shunt, just precise and repeatable. (Yes, accuracy, precision, and repeatability are not the same!) If you want super accurate readings using that method, use an accurate shunt.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by PacEmaker »

[/quote]
All you need is a high current source and a sensitive voltmeter, then let Ohm's Law do the rest: R = V / I. A good way to get such a high current source on a budget (assuming you don't already have a high current bench PSU) is to use the 3.3V or 5V line of an old PC PSU and some resistance wire as a ballast to keep the current to a reasonable value. Get a shunt so you'll know the actual current.

BTW, if you work it out, the meter doesn't even have to be accurate if you use the shunt, just precise and repeatable. (Yes, accuracy, precision, and repeatability are not the same!) If you want super accurate readings using that method, use an accurate shunt.
[/quote]

Thanks Mike, so if anyone cares to find out what their stator windings measure in mΩ, there's a simple alternative method if you don't have access to a milliohm meter. I'd sure like to know what a known good one measures!
Geoff

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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Xenith »

xp677 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:13 pm
Domt177 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:24 pm
xp677 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:38 pm Yep, the GS has a solenoid as part of the shifter assembly. For a bare transmission, you don't get that.

Since I used a motor to move in/out of park, I do the lockout in software (I take the two brake pedal sensors as inputs).

I'm not sure how you'd implement a lockout solenoid, to be honest, it might be best to find a suitable shifter assembly from an existing car (maybe a Ford or GM or something common/cheap to play around with).
What sort of motor do you use to move in and out of park, trying to find one now (maybe you could send me the one you use)
I used a window motor from a 1998 Audi A4 (looks like offside/ right hand side). I made sure to get one with some wiring attached.

These motors have a control PCB inside with two relays and some various components, I stripped the components out and wired the relay coils to two of the pins on the connector. This gave me CW / CCW control without having to add my own relays or driver.

I bonded a steel crank onto the output shaft with some epoxy, and made up a linkage to connect it to the transmission.

I chose the window motor because they are cheap and powerful enough. I couldn't find a suitable solenoid. The motor cost something like £5 from eBay.

Video here: https://imgur.com/9qusPSo

Here's the code I used. This is not compatible with the VCU, but it works fine for my application. You can maybe use it to get started? Sorry, I don't have time to talk you through it.

Code: Select all

//Parking Lock
#define LOCK_PARK 0
#define LOCK_NEUTRAL 1
#define LOCK_NEITHER 2
#define LOCK_ERROR 3
#define VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW 1 //speed below which gear shift / park lock will happen
#define VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_HIGH 10 //speed above which prnd input is ignored
byte parking_lock = 2;
bool shifting = 0;


void gear_selection()
{
  if (prnd_gear == current_gear)return; //nothing to do

  if (veh_speed_kph > VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_HIGH || veh_speed_kph < -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_HIGH) //if above certain speed, ignore input
  {
    prnd_gear = current_gear; //cancel shifter selection of moving
    return;
  }

  else if (brake_pressed) //new gear has been selected, and we are below the required speed, and brake pedal is pressed
  {
    //read park lock state
    if (!digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_NEUTRAL;
    else if (digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && !digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_PARK;
    else if (digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_NEITHER;
    else if (!digitalRead(pin_trans_neutral) && !digitalRead(pin_trans_park))parking_lock = LOCK_NEITHER;

    if (current_gear == GEAR_PARK || shifting) //currently in park, request to come out of park
    {
      shifting = 1;
      if (veh_speed_kph < VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW && veh_speed_kph > -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW)
      {
       if (parking_lock == LOCK_PARK || parking_lock == LOCK_NEITHER)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_neutral, 1);
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_park, 0);
        }
        if (parking_lock == LOCK_NEUTRAL)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_neutral, 0);
          current_gear = prnd_gear; //after parking lock has finished, update the current gear
          shifting = 0;
        }
      }
      return;
    }

    if (prnd_gear == GEAR_PARK || shifting) //currently not in park, request to go into park
    {
      shifting = 1;
      current_gear = GEAR_NEUTRAL;
      if (veh_speed_kph < VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW && veh_speed_kph > -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW)
      {
       if (parking_lock == LOCK_NEUTRAL || parking_lock == LOCK_NEITHER)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_neutral, 0);
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_park, 1);
        }
        if (parking_lock == LOCK_PARK)
        {
          digitalWrite(pin_trans_motor_park, 0);
          current_gear = prnd_gear;
          shifting = 0;
        }
      }
      return;
    }

    if (current_gear != GEAR_PARK && prnd_gear != GEAR_PARK) //not in park or going into park
    {
      Serial.println("changing gear (N/R/D)");
      shifting = 1; //this sets torque to zero
      if (veh_speed_kph < VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW && veh_speed_kph > -VEH_SPEED_SHIFT_THRESHOLD_LOW)
      {
        current_gear = prnd_gear;
        shifting = 0;
      }
      return;
    }
  }
}
Is this code for an adrino or some such ?
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by xp677 »

I run it on an Arduino Due.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Bassmobile »

That's a cool idea to use a window motor to shift. But I would be concerned about moisture and grime fouling the mechanism. what is the IP rating of the window motor?

I'n the 1964 Mecedes-Benz i'm finishing up. I just repurposed the 4-speed column shifter to handle the duties.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Bryson »

I don’t know the best place to put this, but 3/4” long, 5/8” OD, 1/4” ID aluminum spacers are around $5 on the McMaster website and are perfect standoffs for the inverter DC connections. Check it out:
98827F0D-3430-4122-AC31-90C6EEA9E0C5.jpeg
5408E87B-6391-460C-9A5C-58BA621F455C.jpeg
28DA4FFC-206D-46FB-A639-4B9076AAD0CF.jpeg
More fun news, I got my setup up and running today..
‘70 jag XJ6, GS450h drivetrain, 102s Tesla pack
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by arturk »

Nice progress.
Great work on DC connection standoffs. However based on my experience I would recommend copper or brass spacers. Since you already used aluminum, you could use brass M6 bolts to help with conductivity.
It is great you were able to use Jag's shifter, in my build I am using J-gate and works flawlessly.
1998 Jaguar XJR, GS450h drivetrain, 48kWh/96s BMW battery
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Bryson »

Brass is actually half as electrically conductive as aluminum! Copper is almost 2x aluminum but the standoffs in aluminum are equivalent to 3/0 copper wire almost exactly. I’d venture that we’re fine with aluminum.

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/108/E ... Materials/

Do you have any videos of your jag running? Would love to see it.

Edit: I had to look up J-gate, mine is a 1970 and it’s straight forward/aft. Interesting idea.
‘70 jag XJ6, GS450h drivetrain, 102s Tesla pack
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by arber333 »

Bryson wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:56 am Brass is actually half as electrically conductive as aluminum! Copper is almost 2x aluminum but the standoffs in aluminum are equivalent to 3/0 copper wire almost exactly. I’d venture that we’re fine with aluminum.
Well copper is best obviously. But it has some properties that limit its use. Namely softness when cutting it and can oxidize...

Yes alu is more conductive than brass, but you need to use correct alloy since some alloys have more resistance than brass or oxy layer on top. Your find is really good priced. Are they made from series 5 alloy? I think that is the best alloy.

Brass is better to work with, it is good hard surface can be threaded and does not oxidize that easy. It can be soldered effectively to PCB surfaces when you need standoffs and brass nuts on the underside.
I made several pieces of standoffs with internal thread to connect phase cables across inox inverter case.

I like brass better, just my prefference.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Bryson »

5052 is often chosen for bus bars due to its formability on a [brake] press even though it has slightly lower electrical conductivity than 6061 alloys - https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/5052 ... 6-Aluminum but 5052 is indeed very corrosion resistant.

The McMaster standoffs can vary apparently between 6061 and 2011, so using a product like Noalox would be wise (this is what I use on my aluminum electrical joints): Noalox Anti-oxidant Compound (4 Oz. Bottle) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019KHHRE/re ... HC6C0JJJEB

You can find the McMaster standoffs here (actually $2.50/ea): https://www.mcmaster.com/92510A783

I’m not an aluminum salesman, but we do use quite a lot of it (and copper wire, but we’d like to switch to all aluminum for weight savings, because aluminum actually has better conductivity by weight) in the course of my work where its properties are very important. :)
‘70 jag XJ6, GS450h drivetrain, 102s Tesla pack
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