GS450H Discussion

Topics concerning the Toyota and Lexus inverter drop in boards
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xp677
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by xp677 »

ggeter wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:56 am Newbie regen question - I'm building a 307v pack and of course will be wiring straight into the bus per Damien's instructions.

How is regen managed? How to adjust, if possible, the voltage going back to the pack? What about amps? My pack is designed to handle over 500 amps peak.

I'm having nightmares that as long as the motor is spinning, it's making power, and since the converter is out of the picture, am I shunting all that back to the pack?

Thanks for the kind responses in advance...
IIRC you can request regen by sending the inverter a negative torque command.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by xp677 »

ggeter wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:14 pm If I can figure out how to read the positions on the original selector, I can use that to then command the transmission to switch to Drive or Reverse.
It's in the wiki:

https://openinverter.org/wiki/File:Shift_position.png

I'm also using an alternate method of selecting direction. For the park position, I used an old window motor with a crank shaped arm welded onto the output shaft. I use the Park/Reverse positions of the gear selector to tell me when to stop the motor.
IMG_20191202_173128.jpg
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

Domt177 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:25 pm So if I plan to use this

https://zero-ev.co.uk/product/gear-sele ... nversions/

Then I’ll need an actuator to engage park, unless I keep the gearbox in neutral and use physical park brake
Yes. That's right. The lever can actually be in any position other than Park for that to work. No difference except electrically in the other positions.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Domt177 »

What benefit does it bring engaging park in both the GS450H gearbox and using my physical Parking brake, vs just the physical parking brake and leaving the GS450H in neutral
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by SciroccoEV »

Domt177 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:12 pm What benefit does it bring engaging park in both the GS450H gearbox and using my physical Parking brake, vs just the physical parking brake and leaving the GS450H in neutral
The transmission lock will never cool down and let the vehicle roll away.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

SciroccoEV wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:21 pm
Domt177 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:12 pm What benefit does it bring engaging park in both the GS450H gearbox and using my physical Parking brake, vs just the physical parking brake and leaving the GS450H in neutral
The transmission lock will never cool down and let the vehicle roll away.
And, it's there. Why not use it?
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

cajunfj40 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:06 pm Hello celeron55,

Finally something mechanical I've actually messed about with, and can offer a usable suggestion for.

What size U-joints are in your propshaft? Find a mounting flange that adapts to that size u-bolt, with whatever bolt pattern. There are also "adapter" u-joints available between common sizes, at least for US ones. Then make an adapter puck out of aluminum or similar that has the bolt pattern from the Lexus rubber flex joint flange on one side and the bolt pattern of the driveshaft flange on the other. You should be able to find a flange bolt pattern that's compatible enough to not overlap bolts with the Lexus one. If not, either a thicker adapter puck with studs on both sides, or a two-piece job like a wheel pattern adapter. The thickness of the adapter determines how much further forward than stock the mounting face of the Lexus transmission needs to be vs. the old one. This sort of aluminum driveshaft spacer is used a lot on trucks with cheap lift kits, to make the driveshaft that little bit longer to handle the lift. All it requires is having the center of both bolt circles the same, and maybe balance it. Note: you'll need a slip-joint in your driveshaft to handle length changes, if the original vehicle had a slip-yoke on the end of the transmission instead.

Alternately, you can create a mounting flange yourself - or have one made - with the Lexus bolt pattern on one side and the correct "saddles" and strap bolt holes for your U-joint on the other. I hate those u-joint straps, though, flanges are much nicer. Even if they sometimes fall down and whack you on the head because you trusted the small centering lip to hold it up instead of putting a bolt in it while you were test fitting it...

HTH,
-cajunfj40
Found the adapter to go from Lexus 3-prong to "standard" 1350 flange to make it easier for driveshaft shops to make up your shaft (at least at the transmission end: https://www.driftmotion.com/Diff-Adapte ... /dm221.htm. The Lexus GS450h yoke hole spacing is the "small" 90.5mm center to center style.

The driveshaft site here in Houston giggled when I said I wanted a shaft to run between a 2007 Lexus RWD transmission to a 1979 MG Midget diff. But he was super helpful. Told me if I could adapt to this 1350 yoke standard, he could make the shaft for me with nothing but the single face-to-face dimension. Don't even need to bring the car in. Of course, I'll be getting a slip joint in the shaft to handle rear axle slop...
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

xp677 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:16 pm I'm also using an alternate method of selecting direction. For the park position, I used an old window motor with a crank shaped arm welded onto the output shaft. I use the Park/Reverse positions of the gear selector to tell me when to stop the motor.
IMG_20191202_173128.jpg
Love it. That's a great solution.

The M position is a momentary position, i.e., it doesn't lock there. Might be handy to tell the VCU to shift up or down. Just pull back and release. Also, I'm considering a solenoid to prevent moving from P unless the brake is pressed, and prevent moving into P until MGx rpm=0.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by xp677 »

Yep, the GS has a solenoid as part of the shifter assembly. For a bare transmission, you don't get that.

Since I used a motor to move in/out of park, I do the lockout in software (I take the two brake pedal sensors as inputs).

I'm not sure how you'd implement a lockout solenoid, to be honest, it might be best to find a suitable shifter assembly from an existing car (maybe a Ford or GM or something common/cheap to play around with).
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by TonyV »

Hi Everyone,
I was finally able to wire up the complete GS450H inverter to the GS450H transmission on my work bench. What a major PITA making up the wiring harness.

supply power to the VCU, all LEDs came on
Supplying 24VDC to the HV inverter input
Triple and Quadrupled checked all the wiring connections

With the trans in drive (D) or (R) I don't not see/here anything from anywhere when I press on the gas pedal.
no oil pump, no rotating transmission, inverter power relay doesn't kick in,
only thing that happens is the pre charge relay, and the (-)High Voltage relay comes on but turns off after a few seconds.

I have a few questions
1. are both input from gas pedal needed?
2. What state does the Stop light switch need to be in? closed or open
3. I'm I missing something simple?
4, Shouldn't the oil pump come on when the VCU is powered up?

I know this are kind of open ended question but any tips would be greatly appreciated.

I followed this wiring diagram.

Thanks.
Attachments
GS450H Diagram.png
GS450H Wiring overview V2.4.pdf
(947.8 KiB) Downloaded 96 times
I'll figure this out sooner or later
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Domt177 »

How are people putting the gearbox into park gear without using a mechanical linkage. Is there a possibility of using some pawl actuator to push and pull the lever into and out of park when needs be

Also, does the VCU board protect against sending power to the gearbox if its in park? (Ie what happens if you press the accelerator whilst it's in park)
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by steveknox »

There's no way to put it into park without the mechanical linkage AFAIK, so you'd need an actuator to do that.

The VCU board should protect against sending power when in park with the code:

Code: Select all

else if(gear==PARK) {ThrotVal = 0;}  //no torque in park or neutral
This is in the get_torque() function, which reads the throttle value coming from the transmission

Best way to find out for sure is to test it. I'll do that next time I'm out at the bench. Otherwise, report back if you get to it before me :)
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Domt177 »

steveknox wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:17 pm There's no way to put it into park without the mechanical linkage AFAIK, so you'd need an actuator to do that.

The VCU board should protect against sending power when in park with the code:

Code: Select all

else if(gear==PARK) {ThrotVal = 0;}  //no torque in park or neutral
This is in the get_torque() function, which reads the throttle value coming from the transmission

Best way to find out for sure is to test it. I'll do that next time I'm out at the bench. Otherwise, report back if you get to it before me :)
Great thanks for the info 👍. My board hasn't arrived yet, think shipping from Ireland to the UK is a bit complicated at the moment
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by steveknox »

Just a correction, the get_torque() function reads the selected gear (drive, reverse, park, neutral) from the transmission, not the throttle. That reading comes from the throttle. Apologies.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by bobbyj_408 »

On the subject, as far the shift dial on the transmission goes, which position corresponds to what? Is far right (when looking at the dial) D? Far left D? What position should I have it in when bench testing?
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Domt177 »

bobbyj_408 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:45 pm On the subject, as far the shift dial on the transmission goes, which position corresponds to what? Is far right (when looking at the dial) D? Far left D? What position should I have it in when bench testing?
Well all cars must have the layout PRNDL (due to regulation) so I'd imagine far forward is P and then 3 clicks back would be drive, someone should confirm this though
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

you'll know when you're in P.... you won't be able to turn the output shaft. Any other position works for bench testing.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by bobbyj_408 »

ggeter wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:45 pm you'll know when you're in P.... you won't be able to turn the output shaft. Any other position works for bench testing.
Wow total face palm moment. I went to check this out, turned it all the way counter clockwise (left) and the output locked up, turned it all the way clockwise (right) and it freed up. I should have just tried before asking. Thanks!

Either way, I now know what y'all mean by there being an actual "park" in the transmission. So nice.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

Ha! Cool. The other detents away from Park all have their own signals on the sensor. So, you can tap those (R, N, D, and the last position is a momentary position called M), to use as you wish. I'm considering using the M position to swap gears manually - pull back, release, VCU chooses second gear...
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Gigas »

ggeter wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:01 pm
cajunfj40 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:06 pm Hello celeron55,

Finally something mechanical I've actually messed about with, and can offer a usable suggestion for.

What size U-joints are in your propshaft? Find a mounting flange that adapts to that size u-bolt, with whatever bolt pattern. There are also "adapter" u-joints available between common sizes, at least for US ones. Then make an adapter puck out of aluminum or similar that has the bolt pattern from the Lexus rubber flex joint flange on one side and the bolt pattern of the driveshaft flange on the other. You should be able to find a flange bolt pattern that's compatible enough to not overlap bolts with the Lexus one. If not, either a thicker adapter puck with studs on both sides, or a two-piece job like a wheel pattern adapter. The thickness of the adapter determines how much further forward than stock the mounting face of the Lexus transmission needs to be vs. the old one. This sort of aluminum driveshaft spacer is used a lot on trucks with cheap lift kits, to make the driveshaft that little bit longer to handle the lift. All it requires is having the center of both bolt circles the same, and maybe balance it. Note: you'll need a slip-joint in your driveshaft to handle length changes, if the original vehicle had a slip-yoke on the end of the transmission instead.

Alternately, you can create a mounting flange yourself - or have one made - with the Lexus bolt pattern on one side and the correct "saddles" and strap bolt holes for your U-joint on the other. I hate those u-joint straps, though, flanges are much nicer. Even if they sometimes fall down and whack you on the head because you trusted the small centering lip to hold it up instead of putting a bolt in it while you were test fitting it...

HTH,
-cajunfj40
Found the adapter to go from Lexus 3-prong to "standard" 1350 flange to make it easier for driveshaft shops to make up your shaft (at least at the transmission end: https://www.driftmotion.com/Diff-Adapte ... /dm221.htm. The Lexus GS450h yoke hole spacing is the "small" 90.5mm center to center style.

The driveshaft site here in Houston giggled when I said I wanted a shaft to run between a 2007 Lexus RWD transmission to a 1979 MG Midget diff. But he was super helpful. Told me if I could adapt to this 1350 yoke standard, he could make the shaft for me with nothing but the single face-to-face dimension. Don't even need to bring the car in. Of course, I'll be getting a slip joint in the shaft to handle rear axle slop...
would this be a good option as I have to get it to a mustang gt rear diff
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

You should call HoustonDrivetrain.com. This adapter (the "small" version) fits perfectly on the 450h trans and adapts to a standard "American" ujoint pattern. From there, the driveshaft shop can easily make a shaft to hook up to the Mustang.
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by ggeter »

GS450h transmission oil pump bolts and gasket...

For those, like me, who didn't get the pump with the transmission unit, here are the part numbers for bolts and (what appears to be a metal) gasket.

Bolts (4) 90080-10197 $2.76 ea
Gasket (1) 35142-30010 $14
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Re: GS450H Discussion

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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Gigas »

Is the isabellenhuette required? if it is or if there's a replacement, and I can't seem to find where to buy it
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Re: GS450H Discussion

Post by Domt177 »

xp677 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:38 pm Yep, the GS has a solenoid as part of the shifter assembly. For a bare transmission, you don't get that.

Since I used a motor to move in/out of park, I do the lockout in software (I take the two brake pedal sensors as inputs).

I'm not sure how you'd implement a lockout solenoid, to be honest, it might be best to find a suitable shifter assembly from an existing car (maybe a Ford or GM or something common/cheap to play around with).
What sort of motor do you use to move in and out of park, trying to find one now (maybe you could send me the one you use)
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