Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Topics concerning the Toyota and Lexus inverter drop in boards
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by xp677 »

That's my fault, I originally specced those for another purpose and just copy/pasted them into place, I didn't know the value of the thermistors in the transmission at the time. This was two years ago, and I still haven't looked into the thermistors, thanks for the update!
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by Bryson »

By my math, even when railed high the ADC should be calculating a number lower than 109 C - is this just because of the fidelity of the variables in the code versus the fidelity of my excel sheet?
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by 86elcamino »

Robbertjanzen wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:51 pm
xp677 wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:11 pm The pinout is in the post you quoted!

Black is PWM in from your controller.
Brown is feedback from the oil pump. Do what you want with this or leave it disconnected.
The fat blue wire is 12V power. The metal case is the ground.

Edit: I updated the wiki to include this.
Yes i see the pin numbers, but i do not have the connector, so don't know which Pin is which wire...
Knipsel.PNG
So, the controller only has 2 rows of small pins, but the connector has 3. Are the pins to use the two on top, or the first two on the bottom of the controller? I'm just sliding individual connectors on the pins to try and get this spinning until I can get some complete connectors.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by gfournier »

Hello all,

I am very sorry if I'm not asking at the right place, I am new to the forum. I have looked around for quite some time and can't seem to find the information I need. I am converting a Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ to an EV. I am very interested in the GS450H transmission because it leaves the engine bay fully available for other things such as batteries. However, I can't seem to find basic information on the transmission such as:

- MAX RPM for all transmission modes
- Torque output for all modes
- Maximum power output (I read it could reach 202kW but a confirmation would be nice)
- Motor efficiency chart (if available but I doubt it)

Thanks for you help!
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by Bryson »

My logs show ~167kW at ~1850 output shaft RPM in high gear with the pack sagged down to 335V.

Pure math puts that at 860Nm at the output shaft. High gear is about 1.5x the output torque (1300Nm) but will top out at about 2500 output shaft rpm due to MG2 speed. Max motor speed is 10,200rpm for MG2

Efficiency charts are in literature posted somewhere in this forum, but do exist for MG2
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by evMacGyver »

I think I need some help to get my motor spin, my inverter is G9200-30051 and transmission is 30910-30021. VCU and inverter communication is ok and torque values drive/reverse are limited to 200. If I spin transmission axle from ICE side there is reasonable MG1 speed values in both ways and also spinning drive axle side there is MG2 speed. Resolver wiring are now re-checked all the way to inverter board.

Earlier tested supplying inverter from 24V batteries, but 30A fuse blows if added throttle "bit too much" still could not get motors to spin. Now tried 60V power supply and motor will not spin using even lets say 5-6A current or even some more. Input current is proportional to throttle value. Well there is some small movement on drive axle when adding throttle from zero just a little bit, but it looks to me that motor just "locks" to some position, like there is no spinning field at all?

Because of FETs on board, currently ECT solenoid connector is disconnected, but this way HIGH gear is selected anyway, correct me if I am wrong.

How much power slow spin should take? Am I too careful and should I just simply add more current? If power should be enough to spin, how inverter/transmission functionality is possible to verify?
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by NiHaoMike »

evMacGyver wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:30 pm Earlier tested supplying inverter from 24V batteries, but 30A fuse blows if added throttle "bit too much" still could not get motors to spin. Now tried 60V power supply and motor will not spin using even lets say 5-6A current or even some more. Input current is proportional to throttle value. Well there is some small movement on drive axle when adding throttle from zero just a little bit, but it looks to me that motor just "locks" to some position, like there is no spinning field at all?
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by arturk »

I remember during bench testing my setup I could spin motors at decent RPMs under 5-7A@80V (no load of course). Definitely something is wrong with your setup. As NiHaoMike mentioned definitely check if you are not in park position or there is no other mechanical problem with your transmission, you should be able to turn output shaft fairly easily by hand.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by evMacGyver »

arturk wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:59 am I remember during bench testing my setup I could spin motors at decent RPMs under 5-7A@80V (no load of course). Definitely something is wrong with your setup. As NiHaoMike mentioned definitely check if you are not in park position or there is no other mechanical problem with your transmission, you should be able to turn output shaft fairly easily by hand.
Mechanical and electrical gear selector works and VCU is not even trying to spin motor on park or neutral. Both transmission axles are possible to sping by hand, with some throttle applied spinning axle by hand does not get motors to spin on its own, but sometimes it is possible to feel hand rotation like stepper motor if there is more throttle applied.

Transmission and inverter comes from different sources, HV cables are coded and cannot be put to wrong inverter output. Already did try to swap resolver cables, no change. Even removing MG1 or MG2 HV cable one at a time makes no difference, should I be able to rotate only one motor at a time? Just thinking if either inverter output is out of order is this correct way to test?

For transmission I'll put oscilloscope to verify MG1/MG2, there was some voltage reading with multimeter while rotating axle by hand. Resolvers was measured using multimeter to have identical resistances.

Now I'm kind of out of ideas what comes to inverter side..

Oh wait, found something from other thread that is worth to inspect and was one possibility that I think already:
Paul_subi wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:59 pm I had some issues with my motor and inverter connection. As we are sourcing second hand part's, now after many hours spend on the problem I know that it is possible to connect the RHD inverter to LHD gearbox. All you need is two orange HV 3 phase cables from RHD gearbox and the resolvers need to be swaped: mg1 to mg2 and mg2 to mg1
So.. is really inverter output connected differently on RHD/LHD? Could it be that phases are mixed when used wrong HV cables? There is coding on cables at inverter side aluminum cover but still this is possibility.
Edit: all righty, what I also discovered from other threads that LHD/RHD inverter casing for HV output is mirrored, because of this I think phases could go all wrong with wrong cabling. I really do hope this is my problem and I can reverse phases with my current HV cable.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by evMacGyver »

evMacGyver wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:26 am Oh wait, found something from other thread that is worth to inspect and was one possibility that I think already:
Paul_subi wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:59 pm I had some issues with my motor and inverter connection. As we are sourcing second hand part's, now after many hours spend on the problem I know that it is possible to connect the RHD inverter to LHD gearbox. All you need is two orange HV 3 phase cables from RHD gearbox and the resolvers need to be swaped: mg1 to mg2 and mg2 to mg1
So.. is really inverter output connected differently on RHD/LHD? Could it be that phases are mixed when used wrong HV cables? There is coding on cables at inverter side aluminum cover but still this is possibility.
Edit: all righty, what I also discovered from other threads that LHD/RHD inverter casing for HV output is mirrored, because of this I think phases could go all wrong with wrong cabling. I really do hope this is my problem and I can reverse phases with my current HV cable.
I'll reply to myself how this was solved. In my case transmission came with HV wires that was marked LHD and because combination did not work inverter must be RHD. All I needed to do for testing was to open HV cable covers on transmission side and swap outer phase connectors to motors. This action to both MG1 and MG2. After this inverter, transmission and myself are all very very happy as we have spinning motors!

Best solution for phase swap is to do it at inverter side of the cable, because hole on cable screening metal end on transmission side is small and it is not possible to swap wires nicely there. On inverter side connector there are four clips holding cable screening metal frame on plastic connector, I'll try to post picture later. After that you are able to access phase cables easily and simply swap outer ones.

I'm not 100% sure do I have everything correct what comes to gear selector wiring, it seems drive and reverse might be wrong, but hey, I'm so happy for spinning motors already!

Does anyone have idea what is tightening torque for phase wires on transmission side? Perhaps something like 10-15Nm?
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by chuuux »

evMacGyver wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:49 pm
Best solution for phase swap is to do it at inverter side of the cable, because hole on cable screening metal end on transmission side is small and it is not possible to swap wires nicely there. On inverter side connector there are four clips holding cable screening metal frame on plastic connector, I'll try to post picture later. After that you are able to access phase cables easily and simply swap outer ones.

I'm not 100% sure do I have everything correct what comes to gear selector wiring, it seems drive and reverse might be wrong, but hey, I'm so happy for spinning motors already!

Does anyone have idea what is tightening torque for phase wires on transmission side? Perhaps something like 10-15Nm?
Very interesting! I've got a similair problem now, so I'll check it. Have you swap the resolvers connectors?
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by evMacGyver »

chuuux wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:59 pm Very interesting! I've got a similair problem now, so I'll check it. Have you swap the resolvers connectors?
I did not swap resolvers. I was thinking if only difference on LHD/RHD inverters is which side HV connectors are coming out from the case, in my mind this would only swap outer phases. If I'm still correct, MG2 connector is always closer to inverter control connector and MG1 closer to HV input. My conclusion says that resolver inputs are always correct no matter if inverter is LHD or RHD.

When phases was incorrect, adding throttle increased input current proportional to throttle because motor was fighting opposite direction against resolver. Quite understandable now.

To verify possible resolver issue, even without HV voltage applied and oil pump not running, just rotating by hand ICE side for MG1 and drive shaft side for MG2 and watch diagnostic at the same time that inverter gives speed readings to correct motor. I think this will give good indication if resolver are wired correctly and works ok.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by evMacGyver »

Bryson wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:42 pm My logs show ~167kW at ~1850 output shaft RPM in high gear with the pack sagged down to 335V.
Sorry for bit off topic, I'm just curious. As I assume this is input power for MG1 and MG2 combined, which in your case would mean 500A input current, are we close to inverter current limits by using stock protocol to control it? Prius inverter with gen3 board seems to handle 500A on MG2 even it is specified for 350A and MG1 might be 70% of MG2. I've just been thinking are we getting all from this inverter, by numbers Prius inverter would get even more power.. I'm I wrong on this?
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by 86elcamino »

Should there be any draw when first hooking up "HV" power to the inverter? It seems to be pulling about 60 amps off a small 12V battery, even after disconnecting the VCU and transmission cables.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by arturk »

86elcamino wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:19 am Should there be any draw when first hooking up "HV" power to the inverter? It seems to be pulling about 60 amps off a small 12V battery, even after disconnecting the VCU and transmission cables.
Certainly you should not see this kind of current, under 2A is more appropriate.
I doubt internal 12V supply wires can even take 60A for more than second, they are very thin. You need to open inverter and inspect. Make sure you are connecting 12V to the right pins, there are 4 wider pins: two are 12V+, two are GND. Also ground is connected to case.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by 86elcamino »

Thanks for the quick reply, but I'm referring to the high voltage connections. I tried 24V from two 12v in series, just trying to get the motors to spin for the first time, the clips tried to weld themselves to the input, so I went down to a small 12v motorcycle battery to see what would happen, and seemed to be draw about 60 amps. IIRC, Damien is running a 60V, 5 amp power supply in his video.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by arturk »

86elcamino wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:10 am Thanks for the quick reply, but I'm referring to the high voltage connections. I tried 24V from two 12v in series, just trying to get the motors to spin for the first time, the clips tried to weld themselves to the input, so I went down to a small 12v motorcycle battery to see what would happen, and seemed to be draw about 60 amps. IIRC, Damien is running a 60V, 5 amp power supply in his video.
Sorry about misunderstanding, I guess your reference to 12V battery confused me, LOL
Correct, you should be able to spin motors under 5A at 60-100V easily.
Looks like it could be a problem with power stage.
I would recommend putting additional resistive load in series in your HV circuit, like headlight bulb until you figure things out.
Either way you will need to open it up and then you can check capacitor separately as well.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by 86elcamino »

Is there a minimum voltage you would recommend to use in testing? I have access to plenty of 12v batteries I can wire in series, have a circuit breaker I can use also. How would I check the capacitor?
Thank you for your help.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by arturk »

86elcamino wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:57 am Is there a minimum voltage you would recommend to use in testing? I have access to plenty of 12v batteries I can wire in series, have a circuit breaker I can use also. How would I check the capacitor?
Thank you for your help.
I am pretty sure you can spin motors with 24V although lowest I have tried was 48V.

As far as capacitor, technically it is possible for it to have internal short, you want to check for that once you remove it therefore disconnect from the DC Bus. You could use multimeter or you could connect to your "HV" battery and see how it behaves. If it is good then it will just charge and there will be no measurable current draw afterwards. You should connect it through resistor or bulb would be safer in your case (keep in mind pre-charge). If cap is good then it would indicate blown IGBT(s).

Also, at this point it is beyond scope of this thread since it is dedicated to VCU support.
You may want to open another one for your inverter problem.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by 86elcamino »

Ok, thanks.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by Bassmobile »

86elcamino wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:57 am Is there a minimum voltage you would recommend to use in testing? I have access to plenty of 12v batteries I can wire in series, have a circuit breaker I can use also. How would I check the capacitor?
Thank you for your help.
3 out of 5 US market gs450 inverters that we bought had water damage inside. I would suggest open up the inverter case and look for signs of moisture.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by 86elcamino »

I've had the top cover off, and didn't notice any signs of moisture. Was the damage in those on the to section, or below?
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by Bassmobile »

86elcamino wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:26 pm I've had the top cover off,
They crack in half right at the mid point of the aluminum enclosure. They are a real bugger to get apart, but there is a trick to getting in there. Once you figure it out the first time it's easy afterwards. I suspect that that there are a lot of flood damaged inverters on the US market. and don't buy from LKQ, they are rip off artists and won't honor their warranty after you open it up. Total catch 22. So if you see lots of oxidization on the exterior aluminum housing, it's a good indication that you'll be dealing with damage on the inside of the inverter. Walk away! We literally had to buy five, and then mix and match parts from them in order to get just two working units. Huge waste of time and money. Make sure you use good thermal paste on the IGBT cooling backplane when you put it back together or you'll guaranteed be opening it up again and swapping more parts soon! Somebody here made a good tutorial post on this topic. Rven if you don't suspect that your inverter has water damage you should still open it up and inspect things and while you're in there replace the thermal paste.
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by TonyV »

Funny how thing are much clearer once you re-read this entire thread after being away from all of it for a couple months.

All I got to say is....

Man oh Man......There are a bunch of Rock Stars in the HOUSE!

Thank you EVERYONE!
I'll figure this out sooner or later
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Re: Lexus GS450H VCU Support Thread

Post by Lwerewolf »

Bryson wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:42 pm My logs show ~167kW at ~1850 output shaft RPM in high gear with the pack sagged down to 335V.

Pure math puts that at 860Nm at the output shaft. High gear is about 1.5x the output torque (1300Nm) but will top out at about 2500 output shaft rpm due to MG2 speed. Max motor speed is 10,200rpm for MG2

Efficiency charts are in literature posted somewhere in this forum, but do exist for MG2
MG2 max speed is false. My GS spins up to 12,222 (hybrid assistant data logs) before a gearshift at ~115kph (at full throttle), and the "aux oil pump failsafe" mode (which locks MG1 in 1st gear) allows a higher top speed than that. Pretty sure that the max is around 14000rpm. I'm nowhere near Germany so I think I'll refrain from doing a top speed run to verify this for now :D
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