Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Topics concerning the Toyota and Lexus inverter drop in boards
Isaac96
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:50 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Isaac96 »

Interesting -- looks like 'derptruck' was always running at low duty cycle and so the low side switch --- and diode --- were in use far more often. Would extra flyback diodes help with that problem?
JackTerminus
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:41 am

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

I dont know, I was running all three low side/ flybacks when I fried two of my inverters..... I wonder if setting the inverter up as a low side switch would work better?? I wonder if its the switch or the diode that I cooked??
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

Thank you SceroccoEV for your sugestion for my White arrow with 9 inch dc motor and Prius gen 2 inverter.

I pulled Pin 14 GSDN and Pin 25 high with 12 volts.
I then tested the inverter again. Now I have the output to the 12 volt battery working with 14.5 volts charging the car battery.
But I get no response from the accelerator. Motor does not move at all.
I tested pins 4, 5 and 6 on the 32 pin plug (these are the MG1 PWM signal pins) and pins 9,10 and 11 (PG2 PWM signals).
All six pins are showing 15.4+ volts!
I thought these were the pwm signal input to the inverter motors MG1 and MG2. Why are they outputting 15.4 volts?

Thank you for your help getting this inverter off the ground with GSDN and MSDN pins.
I have no idea how to proceed from here.

I thought this was supposed to be a slam dunk to control the output of one or more (up to six) high voltage leads from the two three phase outputs into my dc motor?

I am missing something here.

Hope you had a good holiday and again thanks for your help.

Eric Soneson and the White Arrow 1995 BMW E36 sedan.

Makes no sense to me.
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by SciroccoEV »

esoneson wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:48 pm I tested pins 4, 5 and 6 on the 32 pin plug (these are the MG1 PWM signal pins) and pins 9,10 and 11 (PG2 PWM signals).
All six pins are showing 15.4+ volts!
I thought these were the pwm signal input to the inverter motors MG1 and MG2. Why are they outputting 15.4 volts?
The PWM inputs have an internal pullup.
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

Jack Bauer wrote: Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:36 pm One Prius Gen2 Inverter + one Prius Gen2 DC Motor Controller + instructions = Control of Current to DC Motor

correct:)
I have my Prius Gen 2 inverter installed.

My 167 volt pack connects to the inverter. Batt Pos to Inverter Pos, Batt Neg to Inverter Neg with working pre-charge delay.
Pack voltage+ from contactors to positive input on inverter shows 167 volts
Pack Negative from contactors connect to both inverter negative high voltage and motor negative connector.

My PRIUS GEN 2 DC MOTOR LOGIC BOARD V1 has:
Inputs on CONN1 12 volts+
Ground
5 volts+
THR (throttle signal from accelerator pedal)
REV (12 volt input when backup lights are on)
BRK (12 volt input when brake light is on)
Ground to chassis ground
Ground to chassis ground

Outputs on CONN2 MG1 (PWM signal to MG1 pins 4,5 and 6 on inverter input of Prius Gen 2 32 pin connector)
MG2 (PWM signal to MG2 pins 9,10 and 11 on inverter input of Prius Gen 2 32 pin connector)
Ground to chassis ground
Ground to chassis ground

PRIUS GEN 2 32 pin connector
pins 4,5 and 6 connect to output MG1 on DC MOTOR LOGIC BOARD
pins 9,10 and 11 connect to output MG2 on DC MOTOR LOGIC BOARD
pin 14 (GSDN) connects to 12volts+
pin 16 (Ground) connects to chassis ground
pin 25 (MSDN) connects to 12volts+

PRIUS GEN 2 C5 6 pin connector
pin 1 connects to 12 volt

PRIUS GEN 2 "B+" connector
wide blade connector to 12 volt battery positive (for charging while running)

PRIUS GEN 2 2 pin connector (next to 32 pin connector)
red to 12 volt+
black to chassis ground

Power Up Sequence
1. Ignition key to run position
12 volt power to Gen 2 2 pin connector
12 volt power to Gen 2 DC MOTOR LOGIC BOARD
red light is on and Throttle input is at .6 volt
Positive contactors to battery pack closes
7 second delay and Negative contactors to battery pack closes
power brake canister vacuum pump starts
power steering pump starts

Test
Press on accelerator pedal and Throttle input is at 4.6 volts
Release accelerator pedal and Throttle input is at .6 volts.

Prius GEN 2 "B+" output has 14.5 volts to battery

Prius Gen 2 32 pin connector, pins 4, 5, 6, 9, 10,11 all show 15.5 volts.

All six phase connectors ( three for MG1 and three for MG2 show 0 voltage

No heat from inverter or motor.
No smell of burning wires
No indication that any component is upset with me.

Question
What do I look at, test, probe next.

Thanks to all who have contributed to me thus far.

I don't know what to do next.

I need more guidance.

I like to do things myself, I am stubborn but know my limitations.

I need a little more help.

Thanks
Eric Soneson and the White Arrow (1995 BMW E36 sedan with 9 inch dc motor, 167 volt Chevy Volt Battery Pack, Prius Gen 2 inverter, Toyota MR2 power steering, Audi vacuum pump, etc.
I'll post pictures soon.
JackTerminus
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:41 am

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

Hey Eric, sounds like you have everything wired up right, is your inverter casing grounded to chassis? you could check the voltage on pin 27 and 22 (MG2 Inverter Fail & MG1 Inverter Fail) IIRC they are around 2.5v when all is well and jump up closer to 12v when the inverter is in fault.

Not sure if you saw my post a week or so back, but it seems the gen 2 inverter is not up to running a DC motor at least in this configuration.... I urge you to precede with caution and maybe snag a spare inverter or 2, I cooked one just revving my warp 9 in neutral....

Do you have a scope to check the pwm output of the controller?

I threw another gen 2 inverter in my conversion but I am waiting to try to spin anything until I know what exactly happened and how to avoid it going forward.

Good luck Eric!
JackTerminus
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:41 am

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

I did start disassembly on my first inverter and I can see some destruction and charred components underneath the main IPM board, I need to snip all the IGBT leads from the board so I can remove it and get a clear look at what's going on in there.
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

JackTerminus wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:16 am Hey Eric, sounds like you have everything wired up right, is your inverter casing grounded to chassis? you could check the voltage on pin 27 and 22 (MG2 Inverter Fail & MG1 Inverter Fail) IIRC they are around 2.5v when all is well and jump up closer to 12v when the inverter is in fault.

[Pin 27 reads .27 volts. so no fault
Pin 11 MG2 PWM W reads .32 volts
Pin 27 MG2 inverter fail reads .31 volts.

My test environment was narrowed down. Accelerator controller has MG2 PWM only on the output. I attach that to ONE MG2 phase, Pin 11 (.32 volts).
I tested with accelerator not engaged yielding .6 volt on input to accelerator controller and full throttle giving 4.25 volts on input to accelerator controller.

MG2 HV output to motor showed a few volts using the single phase (maybe nine, but didn't vary).

I have no input to MG1 at this time. Small steps this time. And only one phase on MG2 going to the DC motor.

I don't think I fried anything......yet.
Still getting 14.5 volts charging the 12 volt battery.

Thanks for your help. Any suggestions for what to test next?

Eric and the White Arrow.




<snip>

Do you have a scope to check the pwm output of the controller?

No scope.


Good luck Eric!



I narrowed down my testing environment.
PWM now goes to one MG2 phase (pin 11). No pwm to any MG1 phases.
Exposed pin 25 (MG2 shutdown)
JackTerminus
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:41 am

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

Well, lets take the controller out of the picture and test just the inverter. Unhook the motor and all the HV battery lines from the inverter and hook up a 12v power source to the inverter rails, with 12v to pin 25 (MG2 shutdown), ground one of the pwm signal lines and then you should have positive 12v between that phase and inverter ground rail. when you lift the pwm pin from ground it should switch from high side, to low side switch and you should see continuity from phase to inverter ground rail.

The DC-DC for charging the 12v battery is completely separate from the power stage, so even with a toasted power stage this will continue to work.
JackTerminus
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:41 am

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

Sorry I think I had that backwards, inverter fail pin should be around 6.5v when all is well and it drops low when the inverter is in fault.

JackTerminus
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:41 am

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

Also I dissected my first inverter and there is major damage..... Blew all 6 low side flyback diodes, which resulted in a shoot through condition and exploded 2 of the high side switches..... Looks like the diodes in the gen 2 are not suited for running dc motor?? I wonder if putting external flyback right on the motor would fix it?
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

JackTerminus,
In that same video you posted Damien mentions that the pwm signal he is generating gets boosted to 12 volts before being fed to the Gen 2 PWM pin. I had seen the same voltage earlier and was confused.....but this is expected.

As soon as I can (cold weather prevails) I will monitor PIN27 throughout my startup steps to see if and when it fails.
I remember that Damien would restart MG2 inverter by temporarily grounding a pin (Perhaps the shutdown pin?, cant remember), any ideas about this?

Thanks again.
Eric
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

JackTerminus wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:27 am Well, lets take the controller out of the picture and test just the inverter. Unhook the motor and all the HV battery lines from the inverter and hook up a 12v power source to the inverter rails, with 12v to pin 25 (MG2 shutdown), ground one of the pwm signal lines and then you should have positive 12v between that phase and inverter ground rail. when you lift the pwm pin from ground it should switch from high side, to low side switch and you should see continuity from phase to inverter ground rail.

The DC-DC for charging the 12v battery is completely separate from the power stage, so even with a toasted power stage this will continue to work.
Here is what I did:

I unhooked all phase wires from the inverter.
I unhooked HV positive and HV negative cables between battery pack and inverter at the inverter.
I connected a 12 volt battery positive to the inverter HV input positive
I connected the 12 volt battery negative to the inverter HV input negative
I connected Pin 25 (MG2 Shutdown) to 12 volt battery positive
I connected Pin 11 (MG2 PWM) to HV input negative (also tried the case)
I checked the voltage between the phase wire (tried on all three of MG2) and HV input negative (you called it the ground rail, hope this is correct).
Each phase wire showed .35-.37 volts.
I then lifted PWM Pin 11 from ground.
I then checked continuity between each phase and ground rail (HV input negative)
Each phase wire showed no continuity to ground rail.

Maybe I didn't do this right (probably). Let me know.
To this day I have never seen any life in PGM2 or PGM1 on this inverter.
Hopefully I followed your instructions correctly.

Let me know.
Thanks.
Eric Soneson & White Arrow
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by SciroccoEV »

The inverter control signals and the power side are isolated from each other.

On the control side you need 12v power connected between GINV (Ground - inverter) and ICGT (Ignition circuit).
Unfortunately someone decided to take down the pin-out of the individual power modules (inverter and boost) and only show the pin-out of the 32 pin connector. ICGT is not on this connector, but instead on the two pin connector, along with a second GINV. All control signals need to be referenced to GINV.

Ideally use a separate source for the HV side of the inverter.
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

Jack,

I now have two 12volt sources for this experiment.
1 12 volt battery connected to the HV input to the inverter (negative on top port, positive on bottom port).
1 12 volt battery that connects to the two pin connector (+ on top and - on bottom).
This 12 volt source is used to connect to the Pin 25 (MG2 shutdown).
I ground one of the MG2 pwm signal wires to the negative side of the two pin connector.

Now terminology is getting in my way.
When you say to check the voltage between the phase wire and the inverter ground rail, I need some clarification. By phase wire, are you referring to one of the connector rings that attach to the wires going to the motor? (probably the one corresponding to the PWM signal wire) Or the PWM signal wire?
And, just to be sure when you say inverter ground rail, do you mean the negative pole from the HV input?

I know that some things are happening, because the HV cable input wire from my 12 HV battery is getting warm.

Thank you for your patience.

Eric
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

GENERAL QUESTION

Is there anyone out there who has successfully controlled a DC motor with a Prius Gen 2 inverter using Damien's DC Motor Controller?

Anyone? Anyone?

Post here or message me.
User avatar
Jack Bauer
Posts: 3563
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:24 pm
Location: Ireland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 87 times
Contact:

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Jack Bauer »

Please don't tell me I'll have to do this ......
I'm going to need a hacksaw
Alibro
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 248 times
Been thanked: 144 times
Contact:

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Alibro »

Ah go on.
Go on, go on, go on. :lol:
I need a bigger hammer!
mattndex@gmail.com
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:31 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by mattndex@gmail.com »

Please do this, it will go a long way in helping us, who can not as yet afford an AC motor, achieve the EV dream.
Isaac96
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:50 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Isaac96 »

mattndex@gmail.com wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:41 pm Please do this, it will go a long way in helping us, who can not as yet afford an AC motor, achieve the EV dream.
But AC motors are often cheaper than DC motors :D

I'd try it out but I don't have a DC motor. I can, however, look at the Gen2 inverter I have and maybe figure out a testing system for you all; mine is wired up with an STM32 and UNL2001 and is able to spin an alternator or flash lights as commanded.

-Isaac
MattsAwesomeStuff
Posts: 874
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:40 pm
Has thanked: 280 times
Been thanked: 165 times

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

SciroccoEV wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:53 amUnfortunately someone decided to take down the pin-out of the individual power modules (inverter and boost) and only show the pin-out of the 32 pin connector. ICGT is not on this connector, but instead on the two pin connector, along with a second GINV. All control signals need to be referenced to GINV.
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Gen2_Board

Not quite sure what you're saying, but, if there were changes, they would appear in the edit History.

I'd make corrections and updates but I'm not exactly sure what you're saying is missing.

I've been getting a bit confused myself, and thinking of splitting this content into separate pages.

1 - Prius Gen 2, with all the information about the inverter itself, pinouts, operation, ability, etc.
2 - The original through-hole board, for board-specific information.
3 - Damien's newer-ish board.
4 - Johannes' board.
5 - Damien's DC controller.

Right now it's a bit tricky when you want to add information because lots of it doesn't really have a place where it seems it belongs, or is too much or too little detail. I'd probably kill "Gen 2 Board" since there are multiple boards, and have it redirect to the base Prius Gen 2 Inverter page.
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by SciroccoEV »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:07 am Not quite sure what you're saying, but, if there were changes, they would appear in the edit History.
You're quite right, they were never added in the first place.

Apparently having the pinout and signal description of the dual inverter IPM and the boost converter IPM was confusing.

I guess I'll just delete the file from google drive.
MattsAwesomeStuff
Posts: 874
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:40 pm
Has thanked: 280 times
Been thanked: 165 times

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

SciroccoEV wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:06 pmApparently having the pinout and signal description of the dual inverter IPM and the boost converter IPM was confusing.

I guess I'll just delete the file from google drive.
??

First you're upset that someone "took down" some diagrams from the wiki.

Then you're upset that they were never added to the wiki? Were you prevented from doing this?

Now you want to delete them completely?

I'm wooshing big on this, I don't understand where the hostility is coming from or even who/where it's supposed it be aimed at.

The wiki is editable by anyone and encouraged to be edited by anyone to add content they have to add.
User avatar
mfox
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:56 pm
Location: Croatia
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by mfox »

I have one spare DC motor , also interesting to run it with gen 2
User avatar
esoneson
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by esoneson »

I asked around on other ev forums if anyone has accomplished the prius-gen2-dcmotor-controller-dcmotor-combination. Got no positive response.
Eric & White Arrow
Post Reply