Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle

[Teknomadix]

Starting a new thread to collect / disseminate info on the Toyota Motor Generator Rear aka MGR


Lexus / Toyota part number: G105048010
aka Q211-2FM Electric rear axle

North American market this is in the following models:
TOYOTA Highlander Hybrid 2006 - 2015
TOYOTA RAV4 2016 - Current
Lexus RX400h RX450 2006-2014

The MGR uses a Tamagawa resolver

I think the MGR with a little 12v oil pump and cooler would make an excellent low cost drive unit.

Oil cooling is a good idea, potentially allowing a longer high power duty cycle.
Synthetic ATF is used in this unit.

With more testing, will have more info to share soon. Anyone else utilizing this drive unit please chime in!

[Kevin Sharpe]

A useful overview of the MGR can be found in this WeberAuto video

[Teknomadix]

A useful overview of the MGR can be found in this WeberAuto video

Ah yes! Lest we forgot about Weber. Thank you for the reminder.

[Kevin Sharpe]

A thread on the DIY Electric Car forum;

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/s ... 86829.html

A thread on the ecomodder forum;

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread. ... 29878.html

A thread on AEVA forum;

https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.ph ... 35&start=0

[tom91]

I have one laying around at Zero-EV just waiting to have a suitable inverter with software to run them.

Looks like the Open Inverter is getting there.

[Kevin Sharpe]

Changing Transaxle Oil (here)

[Kevin Sharpe]

lots great images here

[Mouse]

Has anyone used one of these yet?
Or know more about them?
I guess they are the same or similar to the RX400 ones from what I can see.
I've also been looking about and there is the suggestion that these transaxle motors operate on 650V despite the main battery pack being a nominal 288V.

[sfk]

Toyota/Lexus like to use moderately low battery pack voltages (around 250V) and boost that to high voltage (around 600V) to operate the electric motors. This is done in the inverter/buck-boost/DCHV-DCLV unit.

I'm not aware of anyone using these motors on this forum, but there may be other projects on other forums.

I'm intrigued by their potential but have a different project that requires a different sort of drive unit.

[Jack Bauer]

Please don't lets get hung up on this high voltage thing. Motors don't care about voltage. They care about current. More voltage is only required to counter the back emf as the motor increases speed. Toyota only boost the voltage when needed, not all the time.

[Mouse]

Please don't lets get hung up on this high voltage thing.

True enough but I'm guessing running it from ~300V it will have have about half the speed and power capability?

Toyota only boost the voltage when needed, not all the time.

That is interesting to know.

Has anyone found any data or performance charts for these?

[Mouse]

I'm not aware of anyone using these motors on this forum, but there may be other projects on other forums.

I've not found a lot anywhere about them. Hence joining in the conversation here as at least there is a forum section for the Lexus cars that have them. Plus I've been following Johannes Youtube channel for a while.

I'm intrigued by their potential but have a different project that requires a different sort of drive unit.

Yea same here, they appear to be a capable slight weight drive unit for a smaller vehicle and also not fetching premium prices on the second hand market which are both of interest to me. I've worked with DC traction motors in kitcar conversions a few years ago but am still reasonably new to the capabilities and performance of three phase traction motors motors.

[Teknomadix]

Please don't lets get hung up on this high voltage thing.
More voltage is only required to counter the back emf as the motor increases speed.

True enough but I'm guessing running it from ~300V it will have have about half the speed and power capability?

No. Not necessarily.
To make reasonable comparison of a motors application for a particular job, one needs to look at the output parameters. ie: the torque, speed maximums, and power.
EV AC drive motors are designed over a wide range of voltages and current for relatively similar speed and torque output. Rated nominal operating voltage doesn't educate a guess on how the motor will perform.
Caveat;
Motors designed for high power output, are generally designed for higher voltages. When one is designing an electric drivetrain higher voltages are a common decision made by engineers to maintain operating currents within reasonable limits.

As JB said, it's a matter of current, not voltage.

[Jack Bauer]

Just picked up one of these on Ebay for 200 Euros delivered:) 2007 RX400h

[Mouse]

Just picked up one of these on Ebay for 200 Euros delivered:) 2007 RX400h

SNAP!!
Jack, Are you planning on doing any speed vs rpm measurements as information appears to be a bit thin on the ground for these motors?

I paid £100 and collected it at the weekend.
It was sold to me as a "LEXUS RX 400H 2004-2008 209048010 "
It has 2FM on the casting and what looks like a barcode and serial number sticker.

Has anyone identified replacement connectors for the resolver and temp sensor?

Trying to decide if something like an inverter from a 2015 Yaris would be a suitable donor to power it as they are common and inexpensive.
I also guess they are more compact and a bit smaller than the Mk2 Prius inverters?

[Pajo_16]

Torque curve may be useful.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CGeDep ... p=drivesdk

Rear Motor Power
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CNEErE ... p=drivesdk
49 kW @ 4,610-5,120
66 bhp @ 4,610-5,120

[sfk]

Thanks!

The graph suggests the MGR can spin up to 10,000 RPM with peak Power 50 Kw at 4,000 RPM and Torque dropping off from 105 Nm at the same point.

Now just need to find the reduction gear ratios to figure speed...

Found this Lexus slideshow PDF which has some good info, but not the reduction ratio -
http://www.energia.bme.hu/bme/ujproba/d ... 051003.pdf

Found this which seems to suggest the rear diff has a ratio of 6.859 -
https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/f ... chspec.pdf

The tyres on a RX400h are 235/65R18 and have a rolling circumference of 2.396M.
When the MGR is at 4,000prm the output shafts are at 583rpm.
The car will be doing 84KPH.

At 100KPH the MGR will be doing 4,771rpm.

Conclusion: You could use this unit to drive a vehicle at highway speeds if 100Nm of torque and 50Kw of power is sufficient. Either you have a light vehicle, you're not obsessed with acceleration, or you use 2 MGR's in 4WD configuration. The RX400h inverter can easily drive 2. Or even 3 if that makes sense somehow.

That's exciting! The units are so small and not transverse in orientation.

[Pajo_16]

Updated my post above to backup the unsubstantiated power curve with data from the lexus.co.uk homepage. The data seems to correlate.

[Kevin Sharpe]

Conclusion: You could use this unit to drive a vehicle at highway speeds if 100Nm of torque and 50Kw of power is sufficient. Either you have a light vehicle, you're not obsessed with acceleration, or you use 2 MGR's in 4WD configuration. The RX400h inverter can easily drive 2. Or even 3 if that makes sense somehow.

That's exciting! The units are so small and not transverse in orientation.

Worth remembering that my VW Bus was rated at 40 kW (54 PS; 54 bhp) DIN when it left the factory in 1967

[johu]

We are considering an Audi A2 conversion here, trying to stay below the ICEs power for ease of registration. This could be the perfect solution. Would a Prius inverter do it justice?

[arber333]

We are considering an Audi A2 conversion here, trying to stay below the ICEs power for ease of registration. This could be the perfect solution. Would a Prius inverter do it justice?

I am quite sure Prius inverter would excell. Remember it did not use full amp rating on its IGBTs for weakening a high speeds, but rather it boosted voltage to raise RPM at the same KV. If you would use FW then you bypass boost stage and use some motor cooling for highway speeds.
EDIT: I was thinking for those dedicated drive applications, wouldnt it be better to just connect inductor input and boosts top transistor to completely bypass boost drive? What would Prius say to that???

Still in A2 i think the easiest solution would be to just use Prius transaxle with PSD welded to sun gear. Cooling is there, plenty of power for quick starts and you dont need to tell TUV inspector you use the second motor .

[Pajo_16]

I put the following spec sheet together on the RX450h based on randon info I found across the internet.
2019-10-17 RX450h MGR Spec Sheet.pdf
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HLhjz ... FU2_aWJXyp

Comparing the RX300h to RX450h the performance improvement 'appears' to minimal based on the current cost difference. Some searching I fond the RX450h MGR to be approximately 3x the cost of the RX300h MGR. As always prices vary and if you can get your hands on an RX450h MGR at the same price as a RX350h MGR then go for it!!

Here is an example of an RX450h MGR on eBay (possibly the most expensive place to source this):
eBay Link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEXUS-RX450H ... 3728893544
PDF copy of the above link on Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HxNRx ... PFh_-OY6O0

[arber333]

And that one complete with driveshafts and disks...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEXUS-NX300H ... 3206594749

Also what about mitsubishi motor while we are at it?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitsubishi-O ... 2617730854

[sfk]

Both of those URLs are the same.

Anyone have the specs on the Mitsubishi rear motor??

[arber333]

Both of those URLs are the same.

Anyone have the specs on the Mitsubishi rear motor??

Sorry copy/paste...

I think it is 60 kW - 195 Nm thing. Plenty of power for 1t vehicle.

See here some specs etc... I havent seen any report on teardown or technical...
http://www.2018-mitsubishi-icetraining. ... elease.pdf

It sseems Mitsubishi motor can go up to 130Km/h on pure EV with some add-on. So motor is capable.