Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain  [SOLD]

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Emyr
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by Emyr »

we already have a thread about the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV motorised rear axle.

The Peugeot Hybrid4 system was a PSA+Bosch+GKN joint project, and the Outlander is also sold with Peugeot and Citroen badges so I expect Hybrid4 axles to be the same item.

2012-2016 Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4
2012-2016 Peugeot 508 RXH HYbrid4
2012-2016 Peugeot 508 Hybrid4
2012-2016 Citroën DS5 HYbrid4
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by arber333 »

OK this is Letrika ACIM motor data that is used in Renault Twizzy. With inverter and 72Vdc battery it can make 15kW.
http://www.hribitec.com/si/elektricni-a ... erjem.html

I think with 150Vdc and Johannes r2 controller it would make like 40kW. If you find one motor from a broken twizzy you can get it to work in a small car like Fiat Panda, Punto, Smart, Citroen C2, Opel Corsa or Audi A2. It was done before.
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by johu »

arber333 wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:09 pm It is ACIM and supposed to have 50Nm of torque. Rpm should be up to 4000rpm. I think it is 8pole?

See if 2 of them would fit A2 with prius inverter and some differential from rear drive BMW.
Yes I think Damien started his smokey Diesel generator with one of these. But it is a permanent magnet motor if I remember correctly. Also equipping an induction motor with a resolver would be a bit odd.
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by johu »

arber333 wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:37 pm OK this is Letrika ACIM motor data that is used in Renault Twizzy. With inverter and 72Vdc battery it can make 15kW.
http://www.hribitec.com/si/elektricni-a ... erjem.html

I think with 150Vdc and Johannes r2 controller it would make like 40kW. If you find one motor from a broken twizzy you can get it to work in a small car like Fiat Panda, Punto, Smart, Citroen C2, Opel Corsa or Audi A2. It was done before.
Very nice motor. So that with paralleled Leaf cells would output 40kW then. Should be alright for an A2. Will start looking for broken Twizys then.
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain  [SOLD]

Post by johu »

Found a Twizy motor just 40km away from here. Went to pick it up today for just 280€ :) The label has Slovenia written on it. Thanks for the suggestion 8-)
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by arber333 »

johu wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:50 pm Found a Twizy motor just 40km away from here. Went to pick it up today for just 280€ :) The label has Slovenia written on it. Thanks for the suggestion 8-)
I think the motor will surprise you. It says 15kW at 72V source. But we consistently found out it is capable of 40kW+. Of course you will have to use higher voltage. There is one guy in Slovenia who made several cooling tubes for wrapping around the motor for additional cooling.
I still think output shaft is a bit flimsy for 40kW though.

Motor P/N is apparently 11.217.136.seems like an IP adress.
It is 4 pole wound for 30V per phase.
I am posting some data from Mahle/Letrika staff back in the day. Their software seems to work in slip mode also. No FOC here :)
Bare with my translation please....

Rotor at steady state:
Case 1:
n=3561rpm_Pout=4kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3561/30=1,3Hz
Case for 4kW, M=10,7Nm

Case 2:
n=3579rpm_Pout=2kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3579/30=0,7Hz
P 2kW, M=5,3Nm

Case 3:
n=3588rpm_Pout=1kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3588/30=0,4Hz
P 1kW, M=2,7Nm

Calculated sim is valid for 10,7Nm; 5,3Nm and 2,7Nm at 120Hz. Battery voltage 48Vdc (phase voltage 30Vac).

Core saturation slip. Could be more than 2x slipmin
Case 1:
n=2389rpm_Pout=14kW_f=83Hz
slip=83-2389/30=3,4Hz
P 14kW, M=56Nm

Case 2:
n=3465rpm_Pout=12,5kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3465/30=4,5Hz
P 12,5kW, M=34,5Nm

Battery voltage 48Vdc (phase voltage 30Vac).
FW point for Twizzy is 80Hz at phase voltage Uac=30V.
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by johu »

Very nice Arber, configuration - check :)
So I can set udcnom=48V, fweak = 80Hz, boost=?, fslipmin=0.7Hz, fslipmax=4Hz.
So at say 180V it would maintain full torque till 300Hz / 10.000 rpm. Hope I won't run into the same problem as you did with the Fleck machine
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by arber333 »

johu wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:16 am Very nice Arber, configuration - check :)
So I can set udcnom=48V, fweak = 80Hz, boost=?, fslipmin=0.7Hz, fslipmax=4Hz.
So at say 180V it would maintain full torque till 300Hz / 10.000 rpm. Hope I won't run into the same problem as you did with the Fleck machine
Hm... true. At that voltage you would have to increase fweak to lean out motor enough so it is not jumpy. I think 4Hz will not be a problem. Mine is set at 6.4Hz but could work at 7.2Hz with battery that could give 400A.
I think max rpm would be 7000rpm here. Also Fslipmin 0.4Hz could also be enough, but i dont know what kind of regen you would get here.
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by Peter »

Hello arber333.
I have been looking at your formula and was wondering if it will be the same for my set up please?
I am using the 90Kw Enova motor, same as Damien has in his drift car.
Its rated for max 9000rpm, max 305Hz, mav 208V, max 338A.
Using the Combi V8 inverter control (thanks Damien and Johannes) I have set max freq to 300Hz which gives 9000rpm off load.
Bus voltage is 230v.
Can your formula still be used for my set up?
Any help with the slip etc would be much appreciated please.

Thanks in advance. Peter
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by arber333 »

Peter wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:21 pm Hello arber333.
I have been looking at your formula and was wondering if it will be the same for my set up please?
I am using the 90Kw Enova motor, same as Damien has in his drift car.
Its rated for max 9000rpm, max 305Hz, mav 208V, max 338A.
Using the Combi V8 inverter control (thanks Damien and Johannes) I have set max freq to 300Hz which gives 9000rpm off load.
Bus voltage is 230v.
Can your formula still be used for my set up?
Any help with the slip etc would be much appreciated please.

Thanks in advance. Peter
I think this is motor specific. Guys from Letrika sent me those formulas after their tests on Twizzy motor.
For you i think you can find equasions on Johannes site:
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Schematic ... structions
https://openinverter.org/docs/index.htm ... rs,24.html

I would have to see motor plate to answer more specific...
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by Peter »

Hello arber333.
Thank you for the links.
All the best. Peter
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by paaa »

I know of a scrap yard with IMEV , also I may have a spare enova inverter motor and all wiring. I have two of these vans so if you want photos or to check wiring thats still possible.
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by arber333 »

Hi all! I found some more data on Twizzy Letrika motor.

https://www.off-grid-systems.de/15-kW-4 ... z-ASV-7102
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Re: Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain

Post by alg7_munif »

johu wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:50 pm Found a Twizy motor just 40km away from here. Went to pick it up today for just 280€ :) The label has Slovenia written on it. Thanks for the suggestion 8-)
Hi sorry for bumping an old thread, I'm new here and I have a Renault Twizy with a faulty controller. I'm looking for a replacement controller which is suitable for the motor, can you point me to the right direction. Thanks.
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