6x6 Max

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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TheSilverBuick
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by TheSilverBuick »

Picked up a Lexus/Toyota MGR for $100 today. Was supposed to be a 2012 unit, but when they brought it out it was missing the axle shafts that were in the advertisement, so they went back and found a less pretty 2006 one. At least the copper connectors are clear of corrosion and there is a 1 year warranty on it.

It definitely weighs less than the transmission I currently have removed and the potential ~68Hp should be nicer than the maybe peaky 20HP of the 2-stroke engine. At some point I'll need to start a project thread. $50 inverter, $100 MGR. Working on getting a through hole Damien board.
IMG_20200625_173301.jpg
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TheSilverBuick
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by TheSilverBuick »

Does this Toyota Prius "relay" setup do the job of the contactors and pre-charge relay? Or would I still need some contactors, like the Kilovac EV200's? I expect to have well under 200 volts worth of battery.

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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by muehlpower »

I think that was discussed on EV car conversion hardware on page 9
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by JaniK »

I feel envious for those mgr and inverter prices.. I could get same stuff home for about triple your price.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

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muehlpower wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:04 pm I think that was discussed on EV car conversion hardware on page 9
Thanks for the direction :) I had read a page or two of the thread, but when it seemed to be accessory theme'd I stopped reading because it was not relevant to my ATV. The Prius module is mentioned, but then the conversation shifts to economizers without really answering the question of can the Prius module be used.
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by TheSilverBuick »

Continuing on with my basic questions. I have an old evbmw.com Prius Gen2 inverter through hole control board on its way, and reading through the forum and wiki to see how to wire in the toyota MGR, I'm seeing two complications, one maybe a hangup?

The Toyota MGR uses a resolver, but from what I can tell the board itself does not have a resolver exciter on it? The wiki says "Functionality of the existing resolver is integrated as well." which I assume is the encoder inputs? But still requires something external to excite the resolver? Would this be a show stopper for using this basic board for this motor?

The other question is, under the FOC controls, it references current feed back as required for control, but the wiki shows the current inputs as "optional", which I'm sure it is for certain motors, but I am thinking for the Toyota MGR unit it would be required. Is this the circuit that needs to go from 5v down to 3.3v using a simple voltage divider circuit?

Thanks!
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konstantin8818
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by konstantin8818 »

TheSilverBuick wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:39 pm Continuing on with my basic questions. I have an old evbmw.com Prius Gen2 inverter through hole control board on its way, and reading through the forum and wiki to see how to wire in the toyota MGR, I'm seeing two complications, one maybe a hangup?

The Toyota MGR uses a resolver, but from what I can tell the board itself does not have a resolver exciter on it? The wiki says "Functionality of the existing resolver is integrated as well." which I assume is the encoder inputs? But still requires something external to excite the resolver? Would this be a show stopper for using this basic board for this motor?

The other question is, under the FOC controls, it references current feed back as required for control, but the wiki shows the current inputs as "optional", which I'm sure it is for certain motors, but I am thinking for the Toyota MGR unit it would be required. Is this the circuit that needs to go from 5v down to 3.3v using a simple voltage divider circuit?

Thanks!
AFAIK STM32 chip of Blue Pill is not sutible for FOC control, it lacks some pins. However there is an option, I can offer. Damien mistakenly(or not ;) ) sent me new unused Auris/Yaris board, and Auris/Yaris is "no go" here in Belarus, only one inverter is being sold online and it costs 400 euro :? I'm definitely not going to buy it. It would be a shame if board will just lie on the shelf. Can send it to you, but all shipment expenses are on you.
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by jap »

konstantin8818 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:13 am

AFAIK STM32 chip of Blue Pill is not sutible for FOC control, it lacks some pins. However there is an option, I can offer. Damien mistakenly(or not ;) ) sent me new unused Auris/Yaris board, and Auris/Yaris is "no go" here in Belarus, only one inverter is being sold online and it costs 400 euro :? I'm definitely not going to buy it. It would be a shame if board will just lie on the shelf. Can send it to you, but all shipment expenses are on you.
According to:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=220&start=20#p2623

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=228#p2664

Exciter pin exists on blue pill but the circuit is lacking from JB´s board? Shouldn't you be able to copy the circuit from github to a breadboard?

For the current sensor inputs a level shifter schematic was posted by SciroccoEV:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=228&start=160#p9043

See kiwifiat´s remarks on resistor values and vref:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=228&start=170#p9049

At least those two circuits need to be added for using FOC. I don´t have the board myself but do have MGR + Gen2 inverter combo.
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by TheSilverBuick »

Thank you for the responses, I've been looking it over and reading more. I've read through those before and its a case of "I didn't know what I was looking at" so didn't stick with me.

Two questions on the circuit posted by kiwifiat, what is the part number for U1? And what wattages are recommended? I would think lower if fine in this application, but not certain. It is also referenced later that C1's rating needs to go from 1nF to 100nF.
kiwifiat wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:16 pm The Prius Gen2 current sensors are bipolar 15Vp-p, not 10V or 7.1V. Use whatever you like as the 1.65V reference, what is critical is the OP amp output does not saturate as in the case of FOC accuracy of the current input is important to the control algorithm :
Image
I'm not discouraged yet, but feeling daunted =P Now to find the information needed to make the exciter circuit.....
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jap
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by jap »

Sorry, can't help with component values, but here is the schematic from johu's github:
res.jpg
Doesn't seem to be connected to any STM pin, wonder what that pin marked as "exciter" does on blue pill.. Anyway, maybe these posts would be better of under the appropriate thread.
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

I've moved this thread into 'projects' because 'general' is getting unmanageable
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
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Re: Introduction and a few basic questions.

Post by kiwifiat »

jap wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:33 pm Sorry, can't help with component values, but here is the schematic from johu's github:

res.jpg

Doesn't seem to be connected to any STM pin, wonder what that pin marked as "exciter" does on blue pill.. Anyway, maybe these posts would be better of under the appropriate thread.
The circuit TheSilverBuick posted is for level shifting the Prius current sensors so they are compatible with the ADC converters on the STM32.
TheSilverBuick can you please clarify if you are trying to build a current sensor conditioner or a resolver driver?
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by TheSilverBuick »

The answer is both.

The obsolete Damien blue pill board for the Gen2 Prius inverter did not have a resolver exciter circuit, and the two current inputs cannot take the Toyota outputs directly, so need to be conditioned.

The voltage divider circuit looks straight forward enough, but the resolver exciter/driver schematic looks daunting for my skill level. I'm mulling over attempting it versus simply purchasing a Yaris board for my other inverter.
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by kiwifiat »

TheSilverBuick wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:06 am The answer is both.

The obsolete Damien blue pill board for the Gen2 Prius inverter did not have a resolver exciter circuit, and the two current inputs cannot take the Toyota outputs directly, so need to be conditioned.

The voltage divider circuit looks straight forward enough, but the resolver exciter/driver schematic looks daunting for my skill level. I'm mulling over attempting it versus simply purchasing a Yaris board for my other inverter.
Contact Arber333, he designed a board for the resolver exciter/driver and he may still have some bare boards for sale. Johu posted an updated variation that eliminated the voltage reference I used in my design for the current sensor conditioning. I would use his schematic.
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by TheSilverBuick »

So after some thought and more reading, I'm still going to try my hand at the blue pill board with the Gen2 prius inverter and toyota MGR.

I've made the order to Digikey for the parts, have an STM32 chip and programmer on the way. I got the Wifi chip a while back. Arber333 says he has one more exciter board, so working on getting it.

Now the remaining questions on the voltage divider for the two current sensors that I've bolded below. Thanks!
TheSilverBuick wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:04 pm Two questions on the circuit posted by kiwifiat, what is the part number for U1? And what wattages are recommended? I would think lower if fine in this application, but not certain. It is also referenced later that C1's rating needs to go from 1nF to 100nF.
kiwifiat wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:16 pm The Prius Gen2 current sensors are bipolar 15Vp-p, not 10V or 7.1V. Use whatever you like as the 1.65V reference, what is critical is the OP amp output does not saturate as in the case of FOC accuracy of the current input is important to the control algorithm :
Image
Side note, I've picked up a 30v PSU and dug out an old oscilloscope that I had stuck in a closet for ever. Waiting on some new leads to see if it still works.
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by Isaac96 »

I didn't design that circuit, nor do I often use op amps. But I'd get an LM324 - it's a quad op amp (and you need at least 2 for your sensors). It has good input voltage range so you should be fine.

-Isaac
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by TheSilverBuick »

Isaac96 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:22 pm I didn't design that circuit, nor do I often use op amps. But I'd get an LM324 - it's a quad op amp (and you need at least 2 for your sensors). It has good input voltage range so you should be fine.

-Isaac
Thank you!

So with that chip, I would build two sets of circuits, each passing through the single chip, effectively utilizing half the LM324? That sounds straightforward enough.
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by Isaac96 »

Yup, sounds good. The single chip cuts down power wiring, which might help the signals look cleaner. Just make sure not to cross the outputs or something--pinout is straightforward but doesn't follow the usual standard of one corner ground, other corner 5V.
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by TheSilverBuick »

Since I don't know "usual" that assumption shouldn't bite me :lol: Thanks!
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by arber333 »

For the purpose of the 6wheeler ATV i would suggest you get a Buick lacrosse ACIM motor and use it for test bed.
It should provide 18kW for your ATV and you can easily adjust belt drive...
It is also a good unit to learn basics of resolver control. I have one here and I need to test how resolver works with ACIM sine code.
Mr. Kelly has also dissassembled one on youtube :).


And i found another DIYer here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... +generator
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by TheSilverBuick »

Thanks for the recommendation, but the transmission in the 6x6 was my main problem, I got the 2-stroke to run alright, so using an electric motor and keeping the belt would not solve my issues with the 6x6 ;) Plus you mentioned it requires fairly high voltage worth of battery to make it run, and I'm not sure I'll have that much battery power any time soon, or even on the 6x6 itself. There is a guy on a Facebook group I'm in with a 6x6 that would like to just replace the engine and keep the belt, so I'll pass the recommendation on!
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Re: 6x6 Max

Post by arber333 »

TheSilverBuick wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:58 am Thanks for the recommendation, but the transmission in the 6x6 was my main problem, I got the 2-stroke to run alright, so using an electric motor and keeping the belt would not solve my issues with the 6x6 ;) Plus you mentioned it requires fairly high voltage worth of battery to make it run, and I'm not sure I'll have that much battery power any time soon, or even on the 6x6 itself. There is a guy on a Facebook group I'm in with a 6x6 that would like to just replace the engine and keep the belt, so I'll pass the recommendation on!
True, but i think it is not such a HV at all. Maybe 120Vdc...
In any case Openinverter should work with it just fine.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... +generator
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