[DRIVING] Renault Clio Electrique -97

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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bexander
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Yes, the backplate is from the the converter you sent. The electronic is from my inverter.
In the converter you sent me the 30A fuse on the PCB is blown. I haven't found a suitable replacement fuse yet. Might look into this more when I have the car on the road again...
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

While waiting for the last parts for the DC/DC I have been working on the charger.
Will be using 7pc of Eltek FlatPack 2 HE 48V power supplies.
Stacked.
Stacked.
Inside car with control board on top.
Inside car with control board on top.
Modular control board.
Modular control board.
Will also have detection if 1- or 3-phases is available. With planed configuration I will be able to charge up to 17kW if 32A 3-phase is available and down to 2,3kW if only 10A 1-phase is available.
Board for 1/3-phase switching and 12V supply from 230Vac.
Board for 1/3-phase switching and 12V supply from 230Vac.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by whereswally606 »

I like your charging solution, makes nice reuse of those flatpacks. tchip/elcon are pricey. looking for a way to supplement my 2011 ze0 leaf for 3phase to compete with what zoe's have as standard. coming from the ebike crowd this method of stacking server supplies and a meanwell for cccv is not new to me. any more elaboration on how your 1 phase/3 phase automatic switch works would be appreciated.

Did some googling re the eltek flatpacks have you seen this device
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194350158319
Maybe handy for you. :) given your skills you can probably do what this does anyway.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

The shift between 1- to 3-phase is done by four relays. Two would suffice but I could only find PCB mountable relays for 16A with resonable price. The relays are of "type c" NO/NC.
Relay connection
Relay connection
image_2022-01-22_043900.png (7.65 KiB) Viewed 4200 times
L2 is Line 2 and L2sens is basically Neutral (via a opto coupler). Should result in the relay coil is magnetized if the L2 is present.
If coil is magnetized the FlatPack is powered from L2c, if coil is not magnetized the FlatPack is powered from L1c. L2c and L1c is Line 2 and Line 1 after the main contactor in the car.
In my case I have two shifting relays and hence two FlatPacks connected on L2 and two relays and FlatPacks on L3. The remaining three FlatPacks are connected to L1 permanently.

This is still untested but will be tested soon.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by whereswally606 »

Where did you source your flat packs from and for roughly how much? Also whats the combined weight and size?
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Some of them at two different occasions from private persons in Sweden. For the first three I paid 1500 SEK a piece and the remaining four I got as a thank you for helping a friend with some other stuff. I would turn to ebay or similar website to find them. You will also need a PCB to connect to them as there is only a slot at the back, no externa connectors.

The datasheet states 109x41.5x327 and 1.95kg.
My stack takes about 140x330x327 an then with above mentioned PCB in the back the length will increase a further 60mm or so. I have not weight the tack but I guess 15kg is a resonable guess.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

More things mounted in the car.
Switch board and AC contactor.
Switch board and AC contactor.
Type 2 inlet.
Type 2 inlet.
Anyone have a good idea for a cover for the type 2 inlet? The lid that came with the inlet sticks out outside the car so not good without modification. The cars stock one will not work as it is also the filler cap and at an angle.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by whereswally606 »

Plastic print one then cover with metal and paint you could print a ring which fixes around the socket and uses those 3 screws for mounting and implement a nice hinge

I'd look to modify the original too for aesthetics once closed.

Also i measured up my leaf boot and its 110cm wide roughly so 7 flatpacks will fit width ways. I am constrained in my leaf as the muxsan battery extender already takes up a large chunk of the boot space and the remaining space is often occupied by my husky. I think i maybe able to maybe mystack long and thin. I.e.
Have them sideby side and strap them to the backs of the rear seats. Also its a good location as its close to the inbuilt charger which is under the hump just below.

I think i will mockup a cardboard model to see whether the husky will cope with the space loss due to this propose charger location.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Last parts for the DC/DC have arrived and are in place.
IMG_1736_scale.jpg
IMG_1735_scale.jpg
It's a NE555 to provide PWM signal to the DCDC for a solid 14,0V output.

Plan is to also have the relay for the cabin heater PTC inside the DC/DC enclosure but that has lower priority and will have to wait until the car is running.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by Bigpie »

Is that a prius DCDC liberated?
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Yes, that is correct. It is the contents of a Prius Gen3 DC/DC.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Today was a big day. The clio is running again! Managed a 30km testdrive and the car feels great to drive with the Leaf motor/inverter and CAN-control. Still work to do regarding charger and BMS but it does charge as is which is great.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by m.art.y »

bexander wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:42 pm Today was a big day. The clio is running again! Managed a 30km testdrive and the car feels great to drive with the Leaf motor/inverter and CAN-control.
Nice. Does it retain the usual Nissan Leaf driving experience with creep mode and hill hold functionality?
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

m.art.y wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:52 pm Nice. Does it retain the usual Nissan Leaf driving experience with creep mode and hill hold functionality?
No, I don't think this is controled by the inverter in the Leaf. The good news is that I proably could inplement similar functionallity if I wanted. By the way, what is the creep mode?
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by m.art.y »

bexander wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:34 pm By the way, what is the creep mode?
When you just select drive mode the car starts moving forward by itself very gently without the accelerator input.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

The full charger installation. The low voltage wiring to the left is temporary.
IMG_1754_scale.jpg
Working with improvments to charger SW and BMS SW at the moment.

Have done more driving but the wether was wet, cold and windy so not to concerned about 1,02kWh/10km. This will most likely improve with better weather.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by johu »

That's rather nice as worst case consumption :)
So charging at 21 kW means 210 km/h charge rate. More in summer.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Forgot to mention that the consumption is measured at 70km/h cruise. Consumption will increase approx. 15% if speed is increased to 80km/h as per measurements done before.
I have 3pc of FP on one phase and then 2pc per each other phase so will only be able to get max 18,5kW of charging power but should still go from "empty" to "full" at about 30min.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Have done more driving and got 0,87kWh/10km from power outlet. Still cold weather but dry roads and low wind. Speed mostly 70-80km/h. With warmer weather consumption will drop further. Got 0,81kWh/10km as best with the MGR, but that was during summer. Would be nice to get the same or lower with the Leaf setup.

The current setup drives very nice but it is massive overkill for my car. I have it dialed down to max 100Nm and 30kW and it still feels "sporty" to drive. The MGR was a better fit for the car and my purposes but wouldn't behave with the Prius inverter and OpenInverter SW present at the time. Maybe the current SW will do better...? Anyway, I also have a Kia HSG which would be intersting to test in the car but is probably on the weak side. I did a test yesterday where I limited the Leaf to the HSG performance of 42Nm and 20kW, and it was still possible to drive the car and keep up with other traffic. If I were to replace the Leaf motor and inverter with Kia HSG and Prius inverter I would save close to 50kg while still maintaining the FP charger.
Also, the HSG could probably do better with a higher gear reduction, stock Clio reduction is 8,02:1 and if I could find a way to increase this to 10:1 or 11:1 that would increase performance further. I will think this over...
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by Bratitude »

bexander wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:08 am

Also, the HSG could probably do better with a higher gear reduction, stock Clio reduction is 8,02:1 and if I could find a way to increase this to 10:1 or 11:1 that would increase performance further. I will think this over...


What about 2 hsg units ? still very lightweight
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

Bratitude wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 1:38 pm What about 2 hsg units ? still very lightweight
I think this will only complicate things as two inverters will be needed and some kind of transmission joining the two motors to one shaft. Probably better then to go for a Outlander front motor or similar.
Would be interesting to see how one HSG performs, but for now I will keep the Leaf motor and just refine other system such as charger, motor/inverter cooling, some aerodynamic bits.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

If I keep speed at 70km/h in cruise I get less than 0,8kW/10km in nice summer weather. Very nice!

The clio is working well but the ride quality is very poor so I have decided to start with a new car and reuse the Leaf drivetrain. I will keep the clio for use as a test mule for future EV projects.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by johu »

Like you could put the MGR back in there :)

Very nice consumption, in Polo I could achieve around 105 Wh/km at best
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by bexander »

MGR is one option. I'm also very curious to test the Kia HSG.
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Re: Renault Clio Electrique -97

Post by Swing »

bexander wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:06 am Hi everyone!
Hi Bexander, great project. I have some questions about the original car, not about the modifcations :)

Is it true there were only 50 built?

I saw one, that has stood stil for a long time. I guess not a big deal for an electric motor. But I also saw a radiator in the engine room while the rest of the engine room is the same as yours. So maybe some got cooling? That is nice but worries me with such an old car, because it might mean more trouble.

Do you know where I can find any info on the original system? I'm not sure if it is equal to the electric Saxo and Peugeot 106
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