[DRIVING] - Z3(00)

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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bobby_come_lately
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

That YouTube thing seems to have gone down pretty well so I've done another one. The YouTube editor's still doing its thing as I write so the length is wrong (it's only 12 minutes really), but take a look. This one features @Bigpie and @rstevens81. Content probably a bit noddy for people on here but it's about at my level!

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Re: Z3(00)

Post by johu »

Nice to see you guys grouping up :) And fun video too.

Surprised to hear about your cooling issues. I'm using that smallest VW aux pump with my Leaf assembly and literally never had the inverter trip out because it was overheating. What sort of temperatures do you see? What PWM frequency do you run and which deadtime? Could something be blocking the flow? Maybe there is a preferred direction of waterflow through the inverter.

Problems at high rpm are a known issue unfortunately and is being worked on here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2025
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Bigpie »

Temperature tops out at 100, not sure if that's the maximum value but the prius heatsink temperature does shoot up quickly with any acceleration. I don't get cut out's day to day as I modulate my right foot to avoid them mostly.

The params I'm using at the minute are attached.

Code: Select all

  "pwmfrq": 2,
  "pwmpol": 0,
  "deadtime": 130,
It's probably our small motors requiring a lot of amps. 180Jacob posted these motors have poor current control viewtopic.php?f=19&t=902&p=21451#p21451

Was a fun few hours get together, recording was a bit of an after thought but it's turned out well.
Attachments
params (2)-1.json
(1.37 KiB) Downloaded 150 times
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Cheers Johannes!

I also don't get cut outs day to day with a little throttle modulation and well timed shifting, but I want to be able to dump the throttle with confidence - especially after I upgrade to the rear motor. That also being water cooled it feels sensible to stick a big pump in, especially as it was fairly cheap (albeit a little chonky).
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by rstevens81 »

By the way that was my first time driving an electric car and it was fun 🤪 one big thing I learnt is that a clutch is definitely not needed went into gear better than most normal cars. I have now managed to make space in the garden for the rust repair before conversation on mine now, so I'm going to try and catch up 😁
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by UStas »

bobby_come_lately wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:59 am We recorded over 500A on Jamie's beetle last week with the same setup

- Why you don`t paralleling MG1 busbars with MG2? Here is only 20mm2 per phase - it`s not enough for 400+Amps phase current
Not sure I understand. That's what I and others have done without issue. The dimensions aren't much different to the busbars themselves. And you're not seeing huge current on those connections.
Is this phase current or DC current between HV battery and invertor?

I can see DC current only 200-230 A with my 144v HV battery, I am using Chevy Bolt modules they can up to 600A (wires and conntactors allow this current). Motor Outlander MGR have 20mm*2 phase section - it can 20*20*1.7= 680A in peak and 320A continuous.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Bigpie »

Phase current, very very briefly before cutout.
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

New video where I expose both my lack of skills/knowledge and my rear end. Stripping down and rebuilding the Z3 to fix a squeaky coupler:
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by rstevens81 »

Good video tom enjoyed it 😁
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Cheers!
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Posted a few new videos but have been a bit slack updating here.

First up there is the plan: all the stuff I will be doing to improve the car in 2022


Then there is the first steps in building my new battery box:


I've started a new podcast/video series called 'DIY EV Chat' where I speak to other people who've built their own EV - let me know if you'd like to come on:


And then today I've just shared a video about redoing the wiring - just an explainer really:
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Boxster EV »

Great videos. Thanks for making the effort to put them together.
Porsche 986 powered by a Tesla large drive unit. Backwards. Build documented here and Instagram @tesla_porsche here.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Boxster EV wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:31 pm Great videos. Thanks for making the effort to put them together.
Cheers!
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

I've been busy on the videos again. Two more videos on the rewiring project over on my YouTube channel now:



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Re: Z3(00)

Post by arber333 »

Didnt occur to me you have that much of a problem with charging.

What i reccommend is to detect PP pin when the EVSE is connected.
I also tried to sense CP signal, but that wouldnt go through with charger, since it dropped the EVSE signal so low that charger went into limiting mode.

What i am doing here is using a microcontroller (Arduino DUE) sensing PP (pilot signal) and that makes the charging CAN signal run. Also that makes BMS trip the Notaus (EMGCY) signal so the car wont run away with the cable inserted. As well that signal runs several relays which i need to charge effectively. Namely cooling pump and fan relay and DCDC enable relay.

I keep my DCDC always connected to HV battery via a 30A fuse. But if you need to disconnect it when car is off i suggest you use separate small HV contactor (40A) and connect it to the fuse in front of the main contactor. That way DCDC will not be associated with precharge and you can turn it ON as you require... The code is here... it was developed from Collin80 basic EVTV code at the same time as SavyCAN.
https://github.com/arber333/Outlander-C ... -DUE-code-

There is a small tweak i made with my Outlander DCDC. My DUE is observing CAN traffic on DCDC status report (this is why i keep it connected) and decides to switch DCDC to enable when 12V aux battery drops to 12.2V! That way i dont need to separately switch on the DCDC when charging. It comes online itself when needed.

You may also look to my DUE shield hardware:
https://github.com/arber333/Arduino-Due-CAN-shield
https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopi ... 359#p31359
https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopi ... 299#p30299
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Thank you. I already have all the kit and plan to get it sorted though (see the plan video). It's just a question of time and space to get it all sorted (hard to rewire when it's raining and hailing!). I have a microcontroller that is set up to detect PP. I can control the contactors via canbus from BMS to inverter. Time is my only issue.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Bit of an update from my blog:

"Since we started the EV project, the plan has always been to do a body swap. But we've been held back by the lack of a dry space in which to do it. Though the kit we plan to use is largely a bolt-on swap for the existing Z3 panels, there is a lot of fettling required, for example fitting the rear lights (which don't come with the kit and require the body to be modified), installing a charge port, and mounting number plates etc. All this means the car might be body-less for a few days.

But, after over a year of searching, I have now found a garage to rent about 15 minutes drive from my house. And it has space for some friends to come in with their projects too. So I've taken the plunge and put the deposit down on the Tribute Automotive Z300S kit.

This has about a six week lead time. So that means for the next six weeks I will be thinking about all sorts of aspects of the looks of the car, as well as trying to get the garage in order for the work. I'll save information about the garage for an upcoming video - and for when I've actually put pen to paper on the contract (this all might yet be a bit premature...). But I am starting to plan some bits for the car.

Lights
One of the big decisions to make is about what lights to use. I confess I've found choosing these pretty confusing. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of clear guidance in terms of what is allowed with regards to LEDs etc. Since we're going for a real resto-mod look, I want to have quite modern features on the car, including LED lights all round. These should also save on energy consumption a bit - every little helps.

So the question is, what lights do I need?

At the front, you clearly need headlights, dipped and full beam, as well as indicators. Fog lamps are optional (there are none on the original car) and I could choose to add those later.

I really like these all-in-one units for this. They are certified for E9 (Spain) but from what I can gather this should also be fine for the UK (E11), though this may come down to the judgement of the MOT station. (All advice welcome).

At the rear I need brake lights, position lights (that come on with the front lights), indicators and reversing lamps. And lights for the number plate. I like the multi-function nature of these Fristom FT-230s ( but not totally sold on the design yet. Bit too 'back of a truck trailer'. Something like that would be good though.

Again, fog lights are optional, though these are integrated into some units.

Then there's just the sides where I will need repeaters for the indicators.

The confusion comes with the regulations. It's not entirely clear what the legalities are here of installing LED lights on a car that didn't originally have them, when I'm completely changing the body shape. I'm hoping that as long as the lights are appropriately marked up with 'ECE' certification, I should be fine.

Wheels
My daughter wants wire wheels. I don't. Not only do they not go with the resto-mod theme, they would be a ball ache to clean.

Our compromise so far is BMW Style 42 wheels which we both like.

I've been looking at a 17in set with an 8J profile from a 5-Series. The problem with these is that I want something with enough width or offset to really fill out the rear arches and I don't think these will. As I understand it the 20 or 47mm offset these wheels come with (ET20/ET47) mean that they very much tuck under the car. Instead I want wheels that go the other way from the centreline of the wheels and perhaps have a bit of a dish.

More research required.

Interior
This is a consideration for down the line really, but I have already started working on some custom parts for the interior. Notably, customising the heater controls for my electric heating system, and adapting the centre console for a double-din touchscreen head unit. Videos to follow over on the YouTube channel. I also want to change the seats in the car or have the current ones re-upholstered - not sure which is the more cost-effective option at the moment. And fresh carpets and door cards are also a must.

Next steps
The plan now is to get the second Z3 (the basis for my future electric GT car) into the workshop and get it stripped down. Then I can use its gearbox to make up the adaptor plate for the new motor for the cabrio, without having to take the cabrio off the road. I can also make up the engine mounts and the beginnings of the frame for the ancillaries, before taking the cabrio off the road for a week or so to complete the swap.

While the second Z3 is in pieces, I can also use it to mock up the new body panels for the cabrio and install things like the lights and number plate, before again taking the cabrio off the road for a few days and swapping all the pieces over. Then the cabrio will have to go off for paint before it can be finished. Maybe I need another car while both cars are off the road...

Anyway, day dreaming aside, once all that is done I will get the GT/second Z3 completely stripped down and start to properly fix any rust and recondition any parts while simultaneously beginning to put together the new drive train. I want this to be a really first class build, like some of the others on here. "
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

This should make the next project easier:
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Speedy »

Ohhh a dedicated space! Things are getting serious now Tom! :D

Congrats
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Speedy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:01 pm Ohhh a dedicated space! Things are getting serious now Tom! :D

Congrats
I think buying a lathe may have been the first symptom. Or was it the second project car... :D
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Mods to my heater controls to add a pot in order to control the Outlander heater.

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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

New body is here!
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Busy week now that I'm back from two weeks wiped out by the 'rona. Two new videos on the channel:

- Making up the coupler for the motor upgrade
- Test fitting Audi TT seats and the Tribute Automotive body kit


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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Ev8 »

I really wish I took more photos when doing stuff or had the confidence to make videos like you do, I made up my coupler this week and the only photo I took was of it finished! Lol
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Ev8 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:32 am I really wish I took more photos when doing stuff or had the confidence to make videos like you do, I made up my coupler this week and the only photo I took was of it finished! Lol
Ha! Occasionally I want to hide my failures but I figure I might as well show the mistakes as well so other people can learn from them/see that you can do this without perfect skills (much as I wish I was better at all this).
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