Congratulations
[DRIVING] Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter [FINISHED]
- Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
I got the speedo working as well. And yesterday i managed to get RPM to 850turns. ABS and some other relays under the hood started clicking. I get functioning brake system and i think my AC will start working now... I hope.
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... edo-works/
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... r-working/
Say, does anyone know the pot values for the throttle body? Or where to get the corrrect idle values? The only errors now on ECU remain two for the throttle body. I suspect this is the only cause for the engine warning light to stay lit.
If some of you know the throttle values maybe i can set it up to convince ECU to clear the errors.
My Pug was 406c 3.0L ES9J4S - XFX engine and auto transmission.
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... edo-works/
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... r-working/
Say, does anyone know the pot values for the throttle body? Or where to get the corrrect idle values? The only errors now on ECU remain two for the throttle body. I suspect this is the only cause for the engine warning light to stay lit.
If some of you know the throttle values maybe i can set it up to convince ECU to clear the errors.
My Pug was 406c 3.0L ES9J4S - XFX engine and auto transmission.
- Attachments
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- PEUGEOT(DTC)_968590058628_20200522230635.pdf
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Congratulations !
Looks very good and most important - it works
Another thing: I like Slovenian weather and view on second plane.
Looks very good and most important - it works
Another thing: I like Slovenian weather and view on second plane.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Hah! Weather just got better this weekend. It gave me an oppurtunity to take that video and test my RPM/speedo circuit.
What second plane did you have in mind? Do you mean the neighberhood ?
You are invited for a beer if you travel to Croatia for vacation. You will pass just 2km from here on A2 highway... I even have an EVSE available....
Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Second plane means exactly weather, sky, nice green trees - it's really nice neighborhood, I'm not joking.
Ok, thank You for invitation. I hope it will be possible to use EVSE after week of travel TO Croatia , then 2 days at Croatia and week to return with my BMW E87 I'm really curious about my range. Like You saw - Johannes did 80km and rest 25% of battery. I was hoping to have about 120-150km range on my battery (80 Leaf cells/about 320V max).
Today I measured insulation resistance of HV lines/batteries to electrical protocol - was excelent - more than 1GOhm, so I can go with rest of documentation.
I have to look at Your arduino code. I don't know why if I want to send speedo value from v3 board to instrument cluster, sometimes needle is working well, then goes down, waits and goes back. Probably refresh time should be shorter than 10ms, otherwise ECU overwrites this value by 0 rpm, I think.
Second - I have to somehow put 800rpm at idle, but only to 3 and 4 byte and don't touch second byte, because here is throttle value read by v3 board.
Any idea?
Ok, thank You for invitation. I hope it will be possible to use EVSE after week of travel TO Croatia , then 2 days at Croatia and week to return with my BMW E87 I'm really curious about my range. Like You saw - Johannes did 80km and rest 25% of battery. I was hoping to have about 120-150km range on my battery (80 Leaf cells/about 320V max).
Today I measured insulation resistance of HV lines/batteries to electrical protocol - was excelent - more than 1GOhm, so I can go with rest of documentation.
I have to look at Your arduino code. I don't know why if I want to send speedo value from v3 board to instrument cluster, sometimes needle is working well, then goes down, waits and goes back. Probably refresh time should be shorter than 10ms, otherwise ECU overwrites this value by 0 rpm, I think.
Second - I have to somehow put 800rpm at idle, but only to 3 and 4 byte and don't touch second byte, because here is throttle value read by v3 board.
Any idea?
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Ah you are using CAN bus to transmitt RPM and speedo. I havent had that luxury since my Pug is not CAN connected. At least i think not? I see no twisted wires anywhere!
I have put some Arduino PCBs to manufacture according to my protoboard. I posted it on my Github. I have made a 12V to 5V converter and used transistors to transmitt signal.
On RPM pins i put one pin to GND and the second one i output signal with a twist. Like Ron suggested i use inline ceramic 105 cap. This creates pulses that go below the GND plane and my RPM indicator reads them as reluctance wheel signals.
There will also be some signal inputs on the board. For example ENABLE signal for the RPM to start with engine start not at the turn of the key. Now i get some noises when RPM dial starts to work even before i apply engine on signal from alternator. Maybe it just confuses the BSM.
Also i will have two additional signal outputs with transistor to signal 12V (pullup or open collector) if i need to start a cooling fan relay or something.
https://github.com/arber333/Arduino-Nano-RPM-Speedo
I have put some Arduino PCBs to manufacture according to my protoboard. I posted it on my Github. I have made a 12V to 5V converter and used transistors to transmitt signal.
On RPM pins i put one pin to GND and the second one i output signal with a twist. Like Ron suggested i use inline ceramic 105 cap. This creates pulses that go below the GND plane and my RPM indicator reads them as reluctance wheel signals.
There will also be some signal inputs on the board. For example ENABLE signal for the RPM to start with engine start not at the turn of the key. Now i get some noises when RPM dial starts to work even before i apply engine on signal from alternator. Maybe it just confuses the BSM.
Also i will have two additional signal outputs with transistor to signal 12V (pullup or open collector) if i need to start a cooling fan relay or something.
https://github.com/arber333/Arduino-Nano-RPM-Speedo
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- Speedo Arduino - PCB.pdf
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
For now i only have one Ampera battery inside. That will do for TUV. After that i will add a second one to extend my range hopefully to 160Km of highway driving. I see that possible with my Mazda now. Its a smaller car though and now power steering consumes some energy...
I also intend to add chademo port and Johannes circuit.
I will probably have a switch to select between single phase 3kW Eltek and 3phase fast 20kW Prius gen3 charger. EVSE port will remain the same.
I also intend to add chademo port and Johannes circuit.
I will probably have a switch to select between single phase 3kW Eltek and 3phase fast 20kW Prius gen3 charger. EVSE port will remain the same.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
I am getting closer now...
I got the bearing retainer and installed it. Bearing is supported from all sides now.
I ordered speedo PCB boards from manufacture and they should arrive next week.
I have SimpBMS Wiring in and connected now.
Later today if weather permit i will try some test runs.
I still need to do:
to calibrate current sensor.
to think on the underside cover now. Do you think 1.5mm alu sheet will be sufficient? I would like to get lexan sheet, but it is a bit pricey.
to sort out the wiring in front and add some original sensors. There are some strange errors on the dash now that ECU gets "engine" RPM.
I need to connect oit temp sensor and maybe some other analog sensors too.
I got the bearing retainer and installed it. Bearing is supported from all sides now.
I ordered speedo PCB boards from manufacture and they should arrive next week.
I have SimpBMS Wiring in and connected now.
Later today if weather permit i will try some test runs.
I still need to do:
to calibrate current sensor.
to think on the underside cover now. Do you think 1.5mm alu sheet will be sufficient? I would like to get lexan sheet, but it is a bit pricey.
to sort out the wiring in front and add some original sensors. There are some strange errors on the dash now that ECU gets "engine" RPM.
I need to connect oit temp sensor and maybe some other analog sensors too.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Damn! I am so dissapointed by our regulators attitude...
I guess Slovenia shifted everything about development to Germany. They just say to go there and dont even want to listen and argue the points of ECE R100. They dont want to have anything to do with 360Vdc systems in my car. I dont know if it is fear or ignorance. When i tried to explain how it goes, they are just not interested.
But when i asked them if i returned with German TUV will they take it, they said yes without blinking. What a bunch of sheep!
This is what happens if you give up development. You become consumer society. This doesnt produce anything of value. Also when you hinder interested people instead of guiding them you will loose their trust and it will take generations to get that back.
At least in UK and DE you have procesess and procedures. I couldnt get anything from my regulators. I even got idea from one of them to go for 60Vdc system. That in a highway vehicke!
I dont know if i want to even live here anymore.
I will probably go to Munchen for TUV.
I guess Slovenia shifted everything about development to Germany. They just say to go there and dont even want to listen and argue the points of ECE R100. They dont want to have anything to do with 360Vdc systems in my car. I dont know if it is fear or ignorance. When i tried to explain how it goes, they are just not interested.
But when i asked them if i returned with German TUV will they take it, they said yes without blinking. What a bunch of sheep!
This is what happens if you give up development. You become consumer society. This doesnt produce anything of value. Also when you hinder interested people instead of guiding them you will loose their trust and it will take generations to get that back.
At least in UK and DE you have procesess and procedures. I couldnt get anything from my regulators. I even got idea from one of them to go for 60Vdc system. That in a highway vehicke!
I dont know if i want to even live here anymore.
I will probably go to Munchen for TUV.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
I had many let downs like this with Polo back in 2013. I was so disappointed that I let a friend call around until he got a satisfying answer. He made many calls, but in the end was successful. I went back to the same guy with Touran. Who inspected your Mazda?
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
After everything i read in the forum i am happy to be in Germany. In England it seems to be difficult to be classified as EV, in France everything has to be certified for a lot of money, in Switzerland you cannot have more performance than the original car. We have an information sheet from the TÜV with reasonable rules and are tax-free after the conversion.
Would it be possible to register your car in Germany and then import it as an electric car to Slovenia?
Would it be possible to register your car in Germany and then import it as an electric car to Slovenia?
- Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Do you know the folks from the Metron Institute? I met them many years ago in Slovenia and they might be willing to help
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Yes actually i know Andrej. It is not like i couldnt bend some rules to get there. I would like to get a straight conversion. It is just the lack of interest and lack of support from regulators that got to me. I am actually one of them. I regulate aviation. And i never thought it to be that bad. Not since 2013 when i converted MX3. Back then people were actually interested in EVs. But same people that got my Mazda legal are now scared of EVs.Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:35 pmDo you know the folks from the Metron Institute? I met them many years ago in Slovenia and they might be willing to help
EDIT: Correction scared of HV EVs.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Back to actual conversion...
I guess throttle sensor was not the main culprit for "engine overheat" error displayed on dash.
How do i know that? Well i managed to connect throttle sensor and oil temp probe. Now after a longer time of "motor running" i still get "engine overheat" warning and STOP sign on the dash. At first glance it looks like a missing temp sensor. But when i try and follow what happens with sensors i see engine coolant temperature dial slowly rise from its corner up to 70deg! When it comes to about 1/3 warning happens and cooling fans start to blow at full speed.
I dont understand the logic behind this. I have a legitimate temp sensor connected to BSM on previous lines. I connected that directly to calm down BSM and also to have indicator for coolant temperature. I really didnt expect for the needle to move by itself.
But this happens only if i simulate engine RPM with my arduino. Any ideas? Are there more temp sensors?
I found in transmission training manual that one can use like 400ohm testing connection to test fan deploying function of transmission. Maybe that is happening because i dont have any ohm value connected. I will try to show it 1Kohm and see what happens.
Maybe i will be able to use this logic to manualy deploy fans at the time of my choosing.
I guess throttle sensor was not the main culprit for "engine overheat" error displayed on dash.
How do i know that? Well i managed to connect throttle sensor and oil temp probe. Now after a longer time of "motor running" i still get "engine overheat" warning and STOP sign on the dash. At first glance it looks like a missing temp sensor. But when i try and follow what happens with sensors i see engine coolant temperature dial slowly rise from its corner up to 70deg! When it comes to about 1/3 warning happens and cooling fans start to blow at full speed.
I dont understand the logic behind this. I have a legitimate temp sensor connected to BSM on previous lines. I connected that directly to calm down BSM and also to have indicator for coolant temperature. I really didnt expect for the needle to move by itself.
But this happens only if i simulate engine RPM with my arduino. Any ideas? Are there more temp sensors?
I found in transmission training manual that one can use like 400ohm testing connection to test fan deploying function of transmission. Maybe that is happening because i dont have any ohm value connected. I will try to show it 1Kohm and see what happens.
Maybe i will be able to use this logic to manualy deploy fans at the time of my choosing.
Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Look if You have more than one temp sensor - in my car are 2 - one in engine and second on cold tube from cooler.
There isn't also any cooling fluid flow sensor, fluid pressure sensor etc.?
There isn't also any cooling fluid flow sensor, fluid pressure sensor etc.?
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
I am not so sure now that i read about some transmission test protocol. I think it is something in ECU software to allow it to test overheat condition.
Today i will wire one 1K resistor onto connector wires. Also i see i will need to wire 6R to solenoid wires so the system will think it AT works .
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Good news! I was at the TUV sud (MOT inspection) and the car was generaly good.
Man they were thorough!
Here is a list of some of the demands they made:
1. All HV cables visible need to be in orange colour (or shroud). I used orange tubing...
2. Additionaly all HV wires need to be fixed into place, not subject to vibration, i use metal clamps wrapped in some heatshrink tube
3. All HV cables going through metal walls (boxes) need to be fixed/gripped by plastic gromets so vibration would not chaff the cable insulation
4. All items need to be firmly gripped, bolted on, plastic ties etc...
5. Battery box covers need to be sealed! I am talking of O-ring or window seal.
6. Battery box needs to be insulated on the inside where battery sits. Especially the cover. I used Tesla battery separators to insulate metal under my cover. I glued it with black car gasket glue.
7. Batteries need to be firmly installed inside box. They check that by hand!
8. HV connectors on the outside the car need to be waterproof IP65 rating.
9. All connectors that can be dissassembled by hand only, need to be protected by another cover.
10. All components installed need to have visible labels or one needs to present them with a photo evidence. Guess what... i need to make a photo of my inverter cover plate!
11. They make a test drive
12. There has to be an emergency plan. Like a drawing on the HV cable routing and location of HV devices and emergency switches etc... it is called "Rettungsplan"
They raised some findings though. Mainly on my finishing work.
I have to present them with evidence i repaired that and my car will be legal.
The one finding i recognised the most serious is the "open door beeper". Regulation says it needs to beep if key is ON and doors are open. This is to notify the driver of the working vehicle since EV does not produce any sound when standing still.
Originaly Pug has a beeper which does beep ONCE if you open the door, but that is not enough. Sound needs to be continuous. I guess i missed that.
My plan is to fit a piezo speeker under the drivers seat and it will be wired to ignition and to the door.
My only problem is how the door knows it is open? I cant see any switches on the door or on the frame. Does anyone know of where that would be located on a 406 coupe?
I need to connect to incoming side of the switch and my beeper will chime..
Or maybe i need to connect the the door light under/inside the door? It is only lit when door is open is it not? Hm...
Man they were thorough!
Here is a list of some of the demands they made:
1. All HV cables visible need to be in orange colour (or shroud). I used orange tubing...
2. Additionaly all HV wires need to be fixed into place, not subject to vibration, i use metal clamps wrapped in some heatshrink tube
3. All HV cables going through metal walls (boxes) need to be fixed/gripped by plastic gromets so vibration would not chaff the cable insulation
4. All items need to be firmly gripped, bolted on, plastic ties etc...
5. Battery box covers need to be sealed! I am talking of O-ring or window seal.
6. Battery box needs to be insulated on the inside where battery sits. Especially the cover. I used Tesla battery separators to insulate metal under my cover. I glued it with black car gasket glue.
7. Batteries need to be firmly installed inside box. They check that by hand!
8. HV connectors on the outside the car need to be waterproof IP65 rating.
9. All connectors that can be dissassembled by hand only, need to be protected by another cover.
10. All components installed need to have visible labels or one needs to present them with a photo evidence. Guess what... i need to make a photo of my inverter cover plate!
11. They make a test drive
12. There has to be an emergency plan. Like a drawing on the HV cable routing and location of HV devices and emergency switches etc... it is called "Rettungsplan"
They raised some findings though. Mainly on my finishing work.
I have to present them with evidence i repaired that and my car will be legal.
The one finding i recognised the most serious is the "open door beeper". Regulation says it needs to beep if key is ON and doors are open. This is to notify the driver of the working vehicle since EV does not produce any sound when standing still.
Originaly Pug has a beeper which does beep ONCE if you open the door, but that is not enough. Sound needs to be continuous. I guess i missed that.
My plan is to fit a piezo speeker under the drivers seat and it will be wired to ignition and to the door.
My only problem is how the door knows it is open? I cant see any switches on the door or on the frame. Does anyone know of where that would be located on a 406 coupe?
I need to connect to incoming side of the switch and my beeper will chime..
Or maybe i need to connect the the door light under/inside the door? It is only lit when door is open is it not? Hm...
- Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Looks like a push switch on the frame below the front door hinge (this video says it's a 406 coupe but that could be wrong)
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Awesome to hear you're most of the way there. Definitely some good ideas from the TUV for safety. Thanks for sharing the requirements and how you met (or will meet) them.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Maybe you can trace back the wiring for the other beeper? Then just put your own in.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
I already installed beeper in the drivers door. It chimes annoyingly if you open the door. This should do for now. Later on i will find one 12V contact supply wire that will work only when key is turned. I believe windows are powered only if you insert the key. I will steal one wire there.
Further list of demands:
13. There is a demand to declare battery box content in battery cell configuration and in kW. I made stickers on the cover.
14. Maximal voltage is derived from that parameters. I surprised them when i declared lower maximal voltage they expected. I explained them i will not charge more than 4.05V per cell and that ammounts to 389Vdc. They expected 4.2V per cell.
15. Also they demand battery box has a vent on the lowest part to vent gas that may form inside box. I used 2x regular 8mm tire vents and simply bolted them from the inside out.
16. Also all removable battery box covers, battery boxes, DCDC, Charger, inverter and motor that is not welded in need to be connected to car chassis by 6mm2 discharge cable. I used braided copper cable shield from some cables that i took apart for signals. In any case you need good connection between motor - inverter- chassis because of signal immunity!
17. You need to weigh an empty car when conversion is complete. I did it at a scrap yard where they can also issue you some official receipt. Mine is now 1.450Kg whereas with old gas guzzler it was 1.650kg! Quite an improvement over all hydraulic ATX and large 3,0L V6 engine.
18. We derived max speed from motor max declared RPM divided by final drive ratio. I think it is 158km/h which is still respectable i think.
If i remember from my Mazda, our TUV was not as thorough in 2013.
Further list of demands:
13. There is a demand to declare battery box content in battery cell configuration and in kW. I made stickers on the cover.
14. Maximal voltage is derived from that parameters. I surprised them when i declared lower maximal voltage they expected. I explained them i will not charge more than 4.05V per cell and that ammounts to 389Vdc. They expected 4.2V per cell.
15. Also they demand battery box has a vent on the lowest part to vent gas that may form inside box. I used 2x regular 8mm tire vents and simply bolted them from the inside out.
16. Also all removable battery box covers, battery boxes, DCDC, Charger, inverter and motor that is not welded in need to be connected to car chassis by 6mm2 discharge cable. I used braided copper cable shield from some cables that i took apart for signals. In any case you need good connection between motor - inverter- chassis because of signal immunity!
17. You need to weigh an empty car when conversion is complete. I did it at a scrap yard where they can also issue you some official receipt. Mine is now 1.450Kg whereas with old gas guzzler it was 1.650kg! Quite an improvement over all hydraulic ATX and large 3,0L V6 engine.
18. We derived max speed from motor max declared RPM divided by final drive ratio. I think it is 158km/h which is still respectable i think.
If i remember from my Mazda, our TUV was not as thorough in 2013.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
In other news i found out what was bothering my Pug drivetrain. It was not only a bearing support.
The left inside CV joint has a halfh siezed bearing. In by itself i couldnt determine that since the wheels had so little resistance when lifted up. It was only when my friend an i tried to rotate both wheels simultaneously we noticed the LH side was grabbing the differential. I noticed a slight tick in the CV joint when turning outside of allignment. I guess this was something that was declaring itself before failure.
I will need to take that CV apart, inspect the bearings and the outer surface. Maybe it will be enough to just replace the one bearing. If not i will need to change the whole Leaf CV bucket.
The left inside CV joint has a halfh siezed bearing. In by itself i couldnt determine that since the wheels had so little resistance when lifted up. It was only when my friend an i tried to rotate both wheels simultaneously we noticed the LH side was grabbing the differential. I noticed a slight tick in the CV joint when turning outside of allignment. I guess this was something that was declaring itself before failure.
I will need to take that CV apart, inspect the bearings and the outer surface. Maybe it will be enough to just replace the one bearing. If not i will need to change the whole Leaf CV bucket.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
Now we are very close to making Pug road legal!
I have applied to Slovenian DMV office and my application got accepted. I also passed another visual inspection and test drive . As the TUV wasnt enough... Now i am waiting for the system to release my car as EV so my insurance agent can make me a modified policy. I hope to be roadworthy and driving by next week. YAY!
Then comes the chademo equipment!
I have applied to Slovenian DMV office and my application got accepted. I also passed another visual inspection and test drive . As the TUV wasnt enough... Now i am waiting for the system to release my car as EV so my insurance agent can make me a modified policy. I hope to be roadworthy and driving by next week. YAY!
Then comes the chademo equipment!
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter
So you will get it road legal with TÜV and Slovenian authority interworking?
Did you ever have to drive to Munich again?
Did you ever have to drive to Munich again?
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