[DRIVING] leaf powered 1983 Subaru BRAT (dual outlander WIP)

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
Post Reply
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

[DRIVING] leaf powered 1983 Subaru BRAT (dual outlander WIP)

Post by Bratitude »

Been collecting parts and lurking here for long enough I might as well start a build thread.

converting a lifted 1983 Subaru BRAT on a sudo budget

So far I have;


Gen2 leaf motor +inverter+charger/jb 750$ cad

Gen2 chevy volt battery (18kwh)1000$ cad

Gen2 Tesla slave charger 600$ cad

2015 Tesla dcdc converter 245$ cad

Volt wiring/ j1772 plug 130$ cad


Goal is to get this thing driving under 5k

plan, stage 1:

Coupler:
direct coupling from the motor to the brat’s 4spd d/r trany. I have connections to a few machinest, so I’m handing over the leaf motor to them to figure out the splines and mill a coupler. Hopefully all goes well and I can provide spline data on the leaf motor.

Inverter:
CAN control over the inverter using celerons and Damien’s work. Arduino due + can transceiver

Charger:
Damien’s drop in board for the Tesla Gen2 slave charger.

I can get some of the Tesla HV wiring and HVJB for 175 cad, not sure if I really need it at this point. Would like to implement CCS or chademo in the future. Thoughts?

BMS:
For the bms system I’m thinking of rewiring a gen1 volt bms to my Gen2 volt battery and using simpbms.


contractors:
Being the volt battery has the hv contractors/precharge unit built in, and I have all the cables, I’m thinking of just reusing it with a secondary relay control board.

2 Panasonic 120amp 400v contractors. possibly a bit on the small side?


* update 2023/08/24

-3 out of 4 standard ranger M3 batteries (72s)
-leaf motor direct drive to 4wd gearbox
-openinverter replacement brain board
-tesla model s dcdc
-tesla model s obc
-volt ibooster

currently my only vehicle. i daily drive it. 60-70% of the time its off road (on logging roads, etc) its seen a lot of abuse!
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
User avatar
Kevin Sharpe
Posts: 1345
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Location: Ireland and US
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:36 pm I can get some of the Tesla HV wiring and HVJB for 175 cad, not sure if I really need it at this point.
The Model S/X HVJB is a very convenient way of wiring HV connections at low cost. If you can get the HV wiring then you have halved the number of HV terminations you need to make. Also offers very simple upgrade if you decide to add second 10kW charger in the future.
Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:36 pm Would like to implement CCS or chademo in the future. Thoughts?
Both CCS and CHAdeMO will use an external controller. CCS using the Tesla Model 3 charge port ECU will be featured on the Super Yacht in a few months. CHAdeMO hardware is on the Gen 2 V4 charger boards but currently awaiting software support.
Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:36 pm 2 Panasonic 120amp 400v contractors. possibly a bit on the small side?
They won't last... remember the Leaf motor can produce more than 300HP 8-)
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
MattsAwesomeStuff
Posts: 874
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:40 pm
Has thanked: 280 times
Been thanked: 165 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Gen2 chevy volt battery (18kwh)1000$ cad
Share your secrets, witch!
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

Kevin Sharpe wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:20 pm
Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:36 pm I can get some of the Tesla HV wiring and HVJB for 175 cad, not sure if I really need it at this point.
The Model S/X HVJB is a very convenient way of wiring HV connections at low cost. If you can get the HV wiring then you have halved the number of HV terminations you need to make. Also offers very simple upgrade if you decide to add second 10kW charger in the future.
Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:36 pm Would like to implement CCS or chademo in the future. Thoughts?
Both CCS and CHAdeMO will use an external controller. CCS using the Tesla Model 3 charge port ECU will be featured on the Super Yacht in a few months. CHAdeMO hardware is on the Gen 2 V4 charger boards but currently awaiting software support.
Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:36 pm 2 Panasonic 120amp 400v contractors. possibly a bit on the small side?
They won't last... remember the Leaf motor can produce more than 300HP 8-)

Hmm plus the ease of single-3phase input switching/integrating dc fast charging

right, there’s the early work of Collin kiddler with some recent updates could put together, but I’m interested in seeing what you guys come up with for the Gen2 v4 board/ ccs with the tesla unit.


Now the leaf motor, yes been pushed to 305hp (with no signs overheating?)with a custom inverter.

Looking at some of the performance graphs, torque drops off around 2800rpm with the stock inverter +vcm. Now is the vcm throttling toque back or is the inverter?

Keeping the torque threw the rev rang and we should see upwards of 200hp+.

if it’s just the vcm, then I’m looking at contractor upgrades
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
User avatar
celeron55
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:04 pm
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 110 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by celeron55 »

The gen2 leaf inverter factory software does the limiting to 250Nm and 80kW. (and 80kW means full torque to 2800rpm)
User avatar
Kevin Sharpe
Posts: 1345
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:24 pm
Location: Ireland and US
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

Bratitude wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:52 am Hmm plus the ease of single-3phase input switching/integrating dc fast charging
None of this functionality has been implemented and it's unlikely given availability of low cost Model 3 parts and 350kW CCS chargers.
Bratitude wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:52 am right, there’s the early work of Collin kiddler with some recent updates could put together, but I’m interested in seeing what you guys come up with for the Gen2 v4 board/ ccs with the tesla unit.
Lots news about Gen 2 charger boards in the next few days :)
Bratitude wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:52 am if it’s just the vcm, then I’m looking at contractor upgrades
Don't take any risks here... welding a contactor closed could result in serious injury :cry:
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

I have all of the main parts now, and some time off

First off:

Tesla model s dcdc convert, supply it with 12v to the enable pin/case ground and it starts spitting out 13.5v!
All pins inside the dcdc convert labeled :)
All pins inside the dcdc convert labeled :)
Established can communication between the Arduino due and the gen 2 leaf inverter. :D
2887542E-09CD-457C-BF68-287058CA38F9.jpeg
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
arber333
Posts: 3241
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Location: Slovenia
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by arber333 »

Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:41 pm I have all of the main parts now, and some time off

First off:

Tesla model s dcdc convert, supply it with 12v to the enable pin/case ground and it starts spitting out 13.5v!

9FA087FB-288C-4F5B-BBF9-E3257FF7B233.jpeg

Established can communication between the Arduino due and the gen 2 leaf inverter. :D

2887542E-09CD-457C-BF68-287058CA38F9.jpeg
Can you post Tesla DCDC details with pinout diagram on car conversion hardware section?
This is a good info.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=335

tnx
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

arber333 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:06 am
Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:41 pm
Can you post Tesla DCDC details with pinout diagram on car conversion hardware section?
This is a good info.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=335

tnx
Will do, although a wiki would be much more organized. Is the open inverter wiki an appropriate spot as well?
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
arber333
Posts: 3241
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Location: Slovenia
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by arber333 »

Bratitude wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:54 pm
arber333 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:06 am
Bratitude wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:41 pm
Can you post Tesla DCDC details with pinout diagram on car conversion hardware section?
This is a good info.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=335

tnx
Will do, although a wiki would be much more organized. Is the open inverter wiki an appropriate spot as well?
For sure! Lets organize a Wiki page dedicated to EV hardware and its hijacking. Maybe main page as TOC and the rest inside its tree.
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

leaf motor now spinning with throttle and brake inputs :)

Next, moved on to cleaning up all the oem parts and wire harness’s I’m going to use.

Being that I have a gen2 Chevy volt battery, and there’s no real good data on interfacing with it, I picked up a gen 1 bms.

I ordered 9 connectors that fit into the Chevy volt gen 1 bms and the the pins.
655B5526-635A-48E7-8ABD-D0B734810A4B.jpeg
Part numbers:
ATLPB-21-2CD
SAIT-A02GF-M064

2 of the 9 connectors on the bms have a slightly different slot pattern, couldn’t find what part number they are so I plan on just shaving 2 of the new connectors down a bit.
4684050B-439E-4684-BD98-549F294B1616.jpeg
4DC9F29A-712C-4ED5-86E1-2C23CC558485.jpeg
Striped the gen2 bms loom and got the battery side connectors.

I have the pinout data on the battery side of gen 1, but not the bms side.

Anyone have the gen1 bms side pinout info?

Looks like every bms-to-battery connections is the same (expect the 2 different slotted connectors) on the gen1.
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
tom91
Posts: 1274
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by tom91 »

https://github.com/tomdebree/AmperaBatt ... slaves.pdf

This pdf should have all of the conenctors I believe.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

Still working on the actual splines but here’s what I have so far, this is a snug fit on to a gen 2 leaf motor. Mates with a rotex gs 38 coupler

https://github.com/angusjo/leaf-splines ... upler1.STL
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
Igor
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:55 am
Location: Wellington, NZ
Has thanked: 6 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Igor »

Looks great. Looking forward to more progress!
JaniK
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by JaniK »

Great work on the coupler.

Good stuff found daily on openinverter.org forums :)
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
zippy500
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:42 am
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by zippy500 »

Bratitude wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:12 pm Still working on the actual splines but here’s what I have so far, this is a snug fit on to a gen 2 leaf motor. Mates with a rotex gs 38 coupler

https://github.com/angusjo/leaf-splines ... upler1.STL
how much to you think something like that would cost to machine ?
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

zippy500 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:53 pm
Bratitude wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:12 pm Still working on the actual splines but here’s what I have so far, this is a snug fit on to a gen 2 leaf motor. Mates with a rotex gs 38 coupler

https://github.com/angusjo/leaf-splines ... upler1.STL
how much to you think something like that would cost to machine ?
Not sure, plan on getting it 3d printed out of steel or titanium and seeing how that Holds up. Which would cost around 30-50$ cad.

Something much simpler that would bolt to a rotex coupler might be reasonably priced if machined.
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
arber333
Posts: 3241
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Location: Slovenia
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by arber333 »

I don't want to rain on your parade, but that drawing is meant for 3d printer. Is a bunch of triangles not dots. Did you by chance made an accurate machining part in Solidworks or other CAD software too? Can you export one?

Tnx
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

arber333 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:59 am I don't want to rain on your parade, but that drawing is meant for 3d printer. Is a bunch of triangles not dots. Did you by chance made an accurate machining part in Solidworks or other CAD software too? Can you export one?

Tnx
soildworks file is in the repo.

Splines are currently “straight cut” not involuted yet. still adjusting mesh and pressure angle. maybe I’ll post just the spline renderings i print in plastic, used for testing.
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
doobedoobedo
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:39 am
Location: UK

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by doobedoobedo »

Well I printed a plastic one from your STL and it is indeed a snug fit on the leaf shaft. Something like this might save me from having to butcher my leaf gearbox input shaft. I hadn't considered metal 3d printing.
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

doobedoobedo wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:20 pm Well I printed a plastic one from your STL and it is indeed a snug fit on the leaf shaft. Something like this might save me from having to butcher my leaf gearbox input shaft. I hadn't considered metal 3d printing.
Awesome, you print the full part? I have only printed sections of the spline for testing.

Did it seal nice over the o-ring on the shaft?

The idea is to oil up the shaft and have it seal, just like in the gear box.
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
doobedoobedo
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:39 am
Location: UK

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by doobedoobedo »

Yes I printed the whole thing, not particularly solidly and at quite crude settings. I just wanted to see if it'd fit.
It will go over the o-ring, but I didn't push it on that far, like I said it's a snug fit, I had to knock it on and lever it off.
If I'd pushed it all the way on I would have had to destroy it to get it off. As it is the levering left dents. It's getting easier to get on and off though, as I'd expect.
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by Bratitude »

doobedoobedo wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:55 pm Yes I printed the whole thing, not particularly solidly and at quite crude settings. I just wanted to see if it'd fit.
It will go over the o-ring, but I didn't push it on that far, like I said it's a snug fit, I had to knock it on and lever it off.
If I'd pushed it all the way on I would have had to destroy it to get it off. As it is the levering left dents. It's getting easier to get on and off though, as I'd expect.
Oh okay, yes I think the trough of the splines is catching the crown of the leaf, I’ll have an update next few days with it involuted as well
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
damian.lo
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:46 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by damian.lo »

Hello,

I'm really happy, that Bratitude did his 3d model of spline in last days, because I was searching my way to replace my spline from Multipla 1.6 clutch disc. First I want to go to to Honda 1.8 spline, which like Zapatero said was a little to loose ( about 0,2mm) but then I was curious how will fit spline from You.
Result after wire cutter EDM is visible on pictures. Like is written above: higher diameter is ok, lower 19,22 is a little to small and was needed to brush a little with sand paper, so in next version first I will cut by wire and next make chamfer on end and clean inside on internal grinding machine. Everything will be welded inside of Rotex also with small endpoint for motor axis.
I hope this will good and will be not necessary to take one more time gearbox out.
Bratitude: thanks for Your job :)
Attachments
IMG_2456.jpg
IMG_2468.jpg
IMG_2473.jpg
JaniK
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Leaf powerd lifted Subaru BRAT

Post by JaniK »

Hmm. I know a place where they could laser cut discs like that damien.io just posted. Should I arrange for group buy? Postage from Finland is propably high though.. :(
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
Post Reply