[DRIVING] The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

[Cookie6000]

Seem to be making plenty of hay while the sun shines and plenty of time in the workshop. I am now well in the mindset that everything needs to start going back in the car now I have a proven bench test and I understand more and more as the days go by.

Hope to have an adapter plate and coupler made up in the next week or so. More recently, here is the update from the weekend when I spent a few hours extracting the battery modules from the 24kWh pack.

[RetroZero]

Love the progress!!

[Bratitude]

Seem to be making plenty of hay while the sun shines and plenty of time in the workshop. I am now well in the mindset that everything needs to start going back in the car now I have a proven bench test and I understand more and more as the days go by.

Hope to have an adapter plate and coupler made up in the next week or so. More recently, here is the update from the weekend when I spent a few hours extracting the battery modules from the 24kWh pack.

Looks like you printed one of the old coupler design I made, how did it fit on the gen 1 ?

[Cookie6000]

Yep, interested to see how it worked out. Very tight fit as I'm guessing the 3d printing tolerances are out buy about 0.2 ish? But imagine if a broaching tool was used to the same measurements it would be bang on. In the mean time, I'm trying out the Fiat Multipla 1.5 clutch I happened upon next door from my bro. Small bit of play and you can see the valleys of the Fiat splines are a mm or so deeper. That's it on the left, Audi on the right.

It will do for testing until I upgrade to something closer. How did your coupler go? Have they arrived?

[Bratitude]

Yep, interested to see how it worked out. Very tight fit as I'm guessing the 3d printing tolerances are out buy about 0.2 ish? But imagine if a broaching tool was used to the same measurements it would be bang on. In the mean time, I'm trying out the Fiat Multipla 1.5 clutch I happened upon next door from my bro. Small bit of play and you can see the valleys of the Fiat splines are a mm or so deeper. That's it on the left, Audi on the right.
20200418_170740.jpg
It will do for testing until I upgrade to something closer. How did your coupler go? Have they arrived?

I have an updated spline design I’ll send you to try.

would be awesome to have the couple work for both generations of motors

Haven’t arrived yet but should be soon!

[hugow93]

Hey Fiachra, great work on this project.

I watched your latest youtube video yesterday and you mentioned you'd reviewed a few different contactor box designs before choosing your one. Any chance that you could share the links you found most useful?

Thanks!

[Cookie6000]

[/quote]

It will do for testing until I upgrade to something closer. How did your coupler go? Have they arrived?

I have an updated spline design I’ll send you to try.

would be awesome to have the couple work for both generations of motors

Haven’t arrived yet but should be soon!

Sorry for the delay! That sounds brilliant. Would love to try out the update for sure. The coupler I have just made up is fine to get me going. I have the EM61 measured up and in a cad format too if anyone needs as there only seems to be the EM57 bolt pattern readily available out there.

[Cookie6000]

Hey Fiachra, great work on this project.

I watched your latest youtube video yesterday and you mentioned you'd reviewed a few different contactor box designs before choosing your one. Any chance that you could share the links you found most useful?

Thanks!

Yes, absolutely. I plan to make a short video soon on the reasons for going the route I did. Was just waiting to get the gearbox all happy spinning first before going back to the box. Here is what I have done so far. 2 x Kilovac EV200HAANA01. 1 x Arcol 100ohm precharge resistor. 1 x Siemens 3NA3244 250A 500V main fuse and the Isabellenhütte ISA shunt. All these have been listed and before by previous builders and were purchased on eBay aside from the shunt.

The positive comes in top right, negative bottom right and exists the box on the left to the inverter. I am due to place a smaller fuse for aux bits alongside the main fuse there. Have some Cooper 80A fuses coming for that. Busbars made from the leftovers from the Leaf battery contactor box. Need to add in a connector block and some more bits and bobs for the signalling and 12v triggers and current sensor.

My one question for you all is on the precharge relay I am using here. The AEV6501C liberated from the 2015 Leaf pack. These Panasonic contactors are rated for 400v and 20A to handle the 380v+ 24KWh pack it came from. As I am planning on using the same pack, I am presuming this would be ok. I saw Arber discuss the lesser AEV52012 viewtopic.php?f=9&t=335 and gave it the thumbs up.

Interested to hear your feedback so far. Aside from that, pretty happy to have my gearbox spinning now with the help of the motor. Thanks for your help all in getting this far.

[bobby_come_lately]

Thanks for this - I was looking for a post that documented all those parts and this was perfect. Have gone and ordered the resistor and fuse now and contactors on the way. Just need to sort a relay for the pre-charge and get some wire to hook it all up for testing.

[RetroZero]

Yes, great detailed posts. I will be using a prius battery for testing like you have on your bench. How do you recharge it BTW?

[Cookie6000]

Yes, great detailed posts. I will be using a prius battery for testing like you have on your bench. How do you recharge it BTW?

Thanks. Hope to do the same in the videos too. I'm learning as I go! On the charging, good question I did have an idea A: hooking it up to someones Prius and going for a spin, B: buying a very cheap Prius to use as a glorified charger or C: finding a charger on aliexpress that'll do the job

[celeron55]

Plug the pack into mains through an incandescent bulb and a rectifier, and go check the voltmeter every hour or so?

I mean... that could work as a very slow ghetto charger on a car too. Just fit 5 of those BMW hybrid modules to get a charge voltage of about 330V and it won't even overcharge at rectified 230VAC. None of that CANbus nonsense!

[Cookie6000]

It has been a busy few weeks. Lost my job there a few weeks back so have thrown myself at the Audi to get it where it is today - spinning wheels!

To get things moving along while I waited for the adapter plate to arrive, I started by fabricating a plate for the Leaf throttle pedal to attach to the cast alu bracket where the old cable pedal once lived. Thinking about it after I ripped the pedal out, I could have used the likes of the Zero EV hall effect throttle module, placed it in the engine bay and actuated it with the old cable but, eagerness got the better of me . I reused some of the heavy gauge metal from parts of the leaf in an attempt to carry on the upcycling. Worked out really well as the corrugations and curves I used added a lot of extra structural strength so little or no twisting when you bury your foot.

Not long after, the adapter plate arrived and was so well worth the wait! SO well finished. Was very happy with the results and happy that I made the extra effort rechecking all those measurements for the EM61 and the 01E gearbox over and over to make sure it was bang on in CAD. One last thing I was able to do at my brothers workshop next door was to countersink the motor bolts by 10mm so there was no fouling of the bell housing and I could reuse the old bolts as they would now have plenty of thread to attach. Once tidied up, it was time to throw the coupler in, attach them all up and take it for a spin!

https://twitter.com/FiachraCooke/status ... 09921?s=20
When spinning in neutral there was a bit of rattle but cleaner when in gear. I think the coupler is making a bit of a noise as it rests on a collar to the rear of the bell housing and the play in on the Leaf end where there is a bit of play in the Multipla splines. Not an issue. I had yet to put in any gearbox oil also so this may quieten things again.

Time then, to do what else but crane it into place in the engine bay at last. Decks cleared, Audi rolled out I got the hoist back in and lined it all up. Took a bit of messing to get it in there and a realisation I had one of the gearbox mounts in upside down but soon the lump was sitting happy where it should be, with a space of 20mm between subframe and the bottom of the motor.

Next up, how to get the motor to support itself. Now came 2 days of templates, cutting, fitting, welding, cutting, more fitting and lots of milling but very happy with the result, especially on the RHS which was complicated by the coolant o/p being in the way where we needed to get some extra strength. Had a couple of options for this one, one being attaching from the front of the motor and coming around the side but I chose the one you see here.

There was a lot of playing with inverter/hv junction box location also in all sorts of orientations, taking into account the reuse of the Leaf three-phase shielded cable, the i/p and o/p coolant locations, accessibility to all HV connectors when in place and the low voltage plug system. What you see here was the best by far leaving plenty of access and space for pipes to do their thing... and it looks good, like an old 1970's Audi 100 engine that leant over at 40 degree angle

I spent the next day again, measuring, cutting, welding and fitting the upper frame to holding the inverter and HVJB, again, designing it best so it was as serviceable as possible, easy to remove and put back in if needed without much hassle while still being solid. That done, all was bolted down and I made up the 2 x HV cables for the inverter to HVJB, reusing the gland on the inverter which will keep it weathertight and the broad to remove any interference to the signalling in the area.

Final jobs, lump the Prius pack into the boot, rig up a temporary contactor on switch for that, run the HV cables front to rear and into the HVJB, connect up the @EVBMW Leaf VCU into the old Audi ECU harness in the passenger footwell, wire up the contactors, hop in, cross the fingers and turn the key! *Click-Clack......Clack*.

Gingerly press pedal annnnnd.....


Woohoo! Have a load of video so will have something up soon after I take it for a wee bit of back and forth on the drive

[Kevin Sharpe]

Woohoo! Have a load of video so will have something up soon after I take it for a wee bit of back and forth on the drive

Congratulations

[Cookie6000]

Woohoo! Have a load of video so will have something up soon after I take it for a wee bit of back and forth on the drive

Congratulations

Thanks Kevin. @Evbmw & OpenInverter made it happen
Here's the first roll

[Stephen Darbey]

Hi Fiachra.

Did you charge the test Prius battery pack via the Celeron way or another ? As you will have gathered I'm focused on battery charging at the mo.
Great work on the Audi.

Regards
Stephen

[Cookie6000]

Did you charge the test Prius battery pack via the Celeron way or another ? As you will have gathered I'm focused on battery charging at the mo.
Great work on the Audi.

I didn't, no. I decided to press straight ahead to getting the full Leaf pack in there and look at the charging of the Prius pack at a later date. If I get back to a charging solution it I'll post it up here for sure.

[RetroZero]

Nice work and thanks for documentation. Bravo

[Cookie6000]

Took a couple of weeks off with the family after getting the Audi rolling. Staycation in the west of Ireland where rain, mist and wind was the order of the day It gave me plenty of time to plan and think about the next big step. Full Leaf pack install.

First off, the front battery box to hold 20 of the 48 modules - 24 go where the petrol tank used to be and the remaining 4, to the left of the engine bay in a separate battery box. Time to hone those stick welding skills! My brother has a Mig next door but the running back and forth to his workshop was slowing things down so I sped things up by using the stick. Back to basics. Took a little time but I made most of the mess on the cross member that ran left to right between the chassis rails to catch the rear of the battery box. Pretty happy with the results. I measured the 30x30x3mm angle built box to take into account the threaded bar nuts at either end of the 20 cell 'brick' as well as some EVA foam mat I had got my hands on to remove some innaccuracies in the fit when the battery was dropped in. When time came for the test fit of the cage, I found it was a touch too high so I dropped the cross member by 20mm with a few amendments and all was right.

Time to put it together. I had thought of a number of different ways to build the box (local fabricators were out the door busy so went the DIY route) and found one guy in the US who had gone the same route when faced with zero alu welding skills - build the frame and bond in the aluminium walls to create a sealed tub. As you can see, I cut back the angle on the top section to allow the whole brick to be dropped in in one go so they could be all tightened up to the original tolerances, preventing swelling during operation. For the 20 cells, those added up to 680mm end to end. Iwas able to cross check against the 24 pack I still had fully assembled. In the end, I found that once you tighted the threaded bar up, there is a point where you just cannot go any further as the cell chassis bolt holes meet, creating the perfect distance. Perfect fit!... yeah... more on that later

In the mean time, as I was waiting for the bonding to work its magic (spoiler alert - the magic sucked!) I decided it was the better time as any to strip out ALL the metal work, clean it down, prime it and give it a good dose of hardcore black! So worth the effort. When it all went back in, it looks the business... I swear, it looks OEM.... mwahahaha!... ah... that's a good one... ahhh. *sniff*. Well... If it weren't for the mouldy welding and you had bottle ends for glasses, it might have looked OEM Still. I was happy that at least for a while, rust was surpressed.

Again, while things dried, It was time for the cooling system. For this, I ditched the Leaf circulation pump as I didn't want to start the whole rigmarole of dealing with PWM and wanted a blunt tool for the job. In step, the Bosch A0018353564 used mainly in the Mercedes Vito vans and ML series but also across VAG and Ford so, readily available for €20 on ebay and seems to be a weapon of choice as a result. The radiator, as cooling is not going to be that much of an issue and my second vice is motorcycles, came from a Honda CBF1000. It had the same hose size as the Leaf ports and was a perfect little unit for those blistering summer days we get on the sunny south east of Ireland I used all the hoses and clamps I salvaged from 2 broken Leafs for next to nothing on visits to scrap yards for other bits. I got a number of different sized Tee's to take into account the Audi coolant tank. In essence, the flow come from the motor - to the pump - leave pump into a Tee (3rd branch to overflow of coolant tank) - main feeds to top of rad - out the bottom of rad- to another Tee (3rd branch from bottom of coolant tank - back up and into the heater matrix - out of matrix - into inverter - out of inverter - into motor. I had various plans to put in a split system for winter/summer (using a BMW/RangeRover solenoid) but ended up sticking with this for now. I may delete the matrix part altogether as from what I have seen, I will get bugger all heat from the motor/inveter when I need it to demist. I have seen Damien is planning to release something that he put into the Deranged Rover so, I'll keep an eye on that for cabin heating. It's either that or swap the matrix for the Mk5 Golf heater element. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SKODA-Octavi ... SwElNe2iZc. Again... I'll wear gloves and hat and thermals this winter... and keep the windows open to clear the windows

So anyway, back to the battery... yes it fitted and I was well chuffed... something wasn't right though. I had not put on the end plates used in the normal Leaf pack that prevents battery swell and already the modules at either end had a noticeable... bulge. Balls... There just wasn't room! Or was there... I took the box out for the 4th time (don't ask). BY this time I had found a novel way of taking the 'brick' in and out of the box. Turn it on its head, yes.. protecting the terminals with foam. Anyway, with a lot of coaxing, I managed to get the end plates on and getting it to fit using the slimest of fasterners I could dig out. The results were 1mm each end I would say. Toight!

It was about this time I found out the crap 'solution' I had for bonding the alu pannels in was just that. I took the opportunity and stripped it all apart again! THis time, it all went back together with proper panel bonding material... Job done. Battery brick in, crane in for the 20th time (which by now is a piece of piss) and that is not coming out again

Time then for battery-box-mini. This I did in the last couple of days using just good old aluminium plate, rivets, my no favourite bonding goo and left over Leaf pack plate to make up the mounting brackets to hold it in place in the left hand side of the engine bay. Since this pic was taken, I have actually cut and extended the terminal end to make more room for the pos and neg glands for easier access, less stress on the battery terminals and overall... just less stress

WHile all this was going on, I also tackled the new layout of the busbars and Leaf BMS wiring. Took a couple of nights and a lot of looking at it... for long periods of time.... before I figured out how to break apart the old arrangement into one that I wanted, similar to the likes of Shane did on the Porsche and Johannes in the Touran. I ordered some new male and female connectors to allow hooking it up to the rear back and got a lot of multicore from an old scrapped CNC machine to run front to back

Things still outstanding?
DC-DC. Really need to get on this. I pulled out the Panasonic unit from the Leaf and I know there is a way to get it running. There is a video from EVTV floating around where they got it working a long time back. Otherwise, suggestions?

Charging. I have a Chademo and a Type 2 port to play with. First plan was to go for the Tesla Gen 2 with EVBMW v5 board but cant afford that right now but will be on the list including the CCS adapter kit and controller over on the other Tesla Gen 2 charger thread. I am keeping a close eye on the great work Isaac and Damien are doing on getting the Chademo controller working and am planning on getting a 2nd Leaf VCU to help with testing.

Thats' it for now. Hope to get started on the rear pack next week then we are good to go for a spin again

[Dilbert]

If you are looking for a charging and DC-DC solution you should consider the outlander PHEV unit, it contains both in the one package, it would fit in a spare wheel well or even in the boot, although getting the cooling pipes down there might be an issue. There's a chance it might even fit where your current lead acid battery is and then use a smaller 12V aux battery.

The DC-DC converter in this is controlled via 1 pin on the unit and the main charger is controlled via CAN. There is no shortage of these units on ebay and they often come with the main charging socket.

[Bigpie]

This bloke has the DC DC working and charging with the looks of it, I think he's on this forum also.

[Cookie6000]

If you are looking for a charging and DC-DC solution you should consider the outlander PHEV unit, it contains both in the one package, it would fit in a spare wheel well or even in the boot, although getting the cooling pipes down there might be an issue. There's a chance it might even fit where your current lead acid battery is and then use a smaller 12V aux battery.

The DC-DC converter in this is controlled via 1 pin on the unit and the main charger is controlled via CAN. There is no shortage of these units on ebay and they often come with the main charging socket.

That's a great idea Dilbert, thanks. Just had a look and yep, plenty around sub £250. I'll take a closer look and see if it fits the bill.

[Cookie6000]

This bloke has the DC DC working and charging with the looks of it, I think he's on this forum also.

Cheers Bigpie. Interesting how it just begins charging as soon as it's lit up. Wonder if it was the same on the Gen 1 I have. Once I have the full pack in, I'll run a few tests. See it here taking up a chunk of space inside the charger section of the stack. I took it out and it looks fairly straight forward to get it up and running.

I found the EVTV link. From 1:47:04 he goes though how to get the DC-DC running.

[Dilbert]

If you are looking for a charging and DC-DC solution you should consider the outlander PHEV unit, it contains both in the one package, it would fit in a spare wheel well or even in the boot, although getting the cooling pipes down there might be an issue. There's a chance it might even fit where your current lead acid battery is and then use a smaller 12V aux battery.

The DC-DC converter in this is controlled via 1 pin on the unit and the main charger is controlled via CAN. There is no shortage of these units on ebay and they often come with the main charging socket.

That's a great idea Dilbert, thanks. Just had a look and yep, plenty around sub £250. I'll take a closer look and see if it fits the bill.

I have one and tested both the charger and dc-dc on the bench. The same unit was also used in a number of EVs (imev, Peugeot etc...)

The wiring is well documented and we have decoded the can bus commands. You will need an ecu to issue the can commands to init the charger, setting the charge current and stopping the charge at the correct voltage. I've posted some Arduino due code to test the charger.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=628&start=50#p9834

[Cookie6000]

Well, we got there.
It has been a few weeks since the 1st drive using the Prius test pack but today I got the full 380v 24kWh Leaf pack cabled up. Barely touching the pedal but it's a ripper! Hope to have an up to date video soon on the latest. Hope to get it weighed tomorrow, start making some of the temp wiring more permanent, change the front shocks (they are shot!), get some decent rubber mounts for the rear battery pack...and, and, and...