[DRIVING] The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

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[DRIVING] The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Hi all
After many a year talking about it, I have finally got the wheels turning on my first EV conversion. Following the diyelectriccar forum and evbmw intrepid adventures in the land of reverse engineering for a number of years, choice of machine to convert and decisions on how to power it were pondered. The plans got cranked up a notch after meeting Kevin and Damien over in Fully Charged Live 2019 and not long after, parts begin to be purchased in the shape of a Gen 1 Leaf motor, inverter, charge ports, plus all HV wiring I could strip. Soon after that, after months of looking both sides of the Irish sea, the right candidate in the shape of a 2.0l 16v '93 Audi 80 Avant came up. The right money, the right condition and the right colour :D
20190907_182233.jpg
20190907_182249.jpg
What moved the project to go mode was the chance to enrol and take part on the inaugural EV conversion course at New Electric Irelands HQ back in September. It was around this time Damien started working on the Leaf powered E46 and that just looked like the perfect way to go. To see it in the metal and getting hands-on with it was gold. Within a couple of weeks I got hold of a 2015 24kWh LEaf pack from a donor with only 20km on the clock. State of charge as yet unknown but I have a Wolftronics Packsniffer 2 on the way to tell me its secrets.
20191001_165154.jpg
20190712_113010.jpg
SO in a nutshell:
Gen 1 Leaf motor and inverter
24kWh Leaf pack
evbmw Leaf brain board
TRW PS pump
VAG UP28 aux brake assist servo pump
Tesla Gen 2 Charger with evbmw brain
Lots of other bits and bobs yet to be decided on - powerwatcher, cooling, building the main hv junction box, cabin heating, etc.

I kicked things off two weeks ago and rolled the reluctant patient into the theatre. The start was sort of enforced as I had put the 2.0l 16v up for sale... and it sold within 24hours so had to have it out quick smart. After starting under her own stream for weeks, it decided it did not want to and needed a helping jump and in she rolled.
20191025_151510.jpg
Two days later :cry: the lump was out
20191029_211132.jpg
The finished article? A big hole with the gearbox still in place.
20191029_211942.jpg
Couldn't help myself... just had to offer the motor up
20191029_215209.jpg
20191029_215216.jpg
One thing I did notice that may make things a tad tricky is the subframe as the gbox sits about 30mm below the main crossbeam. It may mean standing the motor forward from the gearbox by 200mm to miss the main beam somehow. A lot of tricky fabrication, in essence, extending the bell housing which is an idea am not really entertaining just yet. Alternatively, there may be a chance that the Leaf gearbox may work here, some fabrication on the gearbox end of the half shafts. Will just have to offer it all up when I get hold of a gearbox I have been promised to see if there is enough room as the motor will sit in a transverse arrangement. I really do like this plan as it makes the drive system so much simpler... 'click' Forward... 'click' Reverse. We'll see in the next week or so.

Moving around to the back, I whipped off the towbar, exhaust and fuel tank. Some promising measurements from the vacated fuel tank cavity is that closely resembles the rearmost module set in the Leaf pack and may fit in one piece within a fabricated battery box that can be lifted or dropped when needed. The very deep spare wheel well may also be a good location for rear hv contactor box and safety's
20191101_213331.jpg
That's it for now. Sorry there isn't a lot of technical detail just yet but.... it's the beginning of a journey. Hope to fill in the gaps for you guys as I go and will also be calling on the vast experience here on the forum.

Fiachra
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by james@N52E01 »

Hi Fiachra, outstanding work! The car looks great and you have really progressed quickly. I was on Damien and Kevin’s second course in October and would love to follow in your footsteps! I’m converting a 1991 Nissan Figaro, planning to use a Nissan Leaf with Damien’s VCU aboard in the same way (project Fig-Leaf coming soon to the openinverter forum).

If you’d ever like to meet up I’ll happily make the journey as it would be great to hear about what went well, what you’d do different and what issues you’re facing moving forward.

James
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

james@N52E01 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:15 am Hi Fiachra, outstanding work! The car looks great and you have really progressed quickly. I was on Damien and Kevin’s second course in October and would love to follow in your footsteps! I’m converting a 1991 Nissan Figaro, planning to use a Nissan Leaf with Damien’s VCU aboard in the same way (project Fig-Leaf coming soon to the openinverter forum).

If you’d ever like to meet up I’ll happily make the journey as it would be great to hear about what went well, what you’d do different and what issues you’re facing moving forward.

James
Thanks James! Progressing well alright. Had been gathering the parts and knowledge for a while and the course set me up. The Figaro is a cracking little conversion to do and it fits the bill. Love the name :lol:
Keep in touch and we'll organise a meet up alright. Hoping to get a few of the guys from the September course up for a look and banging some heads together for ideas and solutions. Will keep an eye out for the Fig-leaf :D
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by james@N52E01 »

Thanks Fiachra, that’d be great if you’re planning a group meet up. Don’t know how much use I can be but if you need someone to hold a spanner :D . Have you got one of Damien’s VCU boards yet? I’m hoping to splice in the whole Leaf transaxle and figure out a way to mate up the drive shafts. Finding space for the batteries in the thing is going to be a challenge as parts like the Tesla gen 2 charger take up a good chunk of the boot :D Still early days yet. Definitely let me know when you have a meet up planned.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Well, made a little headway the last couple of weeks on the little stuff.

Began by gathering all the components to build Damien's Leaf VCU. The first time doing something like this in over 20 years. Jeeze... More about that later. After the exit of the 2.0l petrol plus tank, I set to stripping the remaining fuel lines, filters and heat shielding from under the body and offered up the Leaf Chademo port to see how she fitted :D
20191104_213206.jpg
20191105_183939v2.jpg
With packages arriving daily with bits and bobs, the Wofltronix Packsniffer 2 arrived from the US. I had my nephew 3D print up the Leaf connector and the casing to house the unit. Yet to wire it all up to check the state of charge with the pack I bought but should have it all good to go by the weekend.
20191112_172842.jpg
Next up was attempting to work out what 5-pin connector I needed to plug into the Bosch accelerator pedal from an Azure Dynamics Ford Transit Connect/Peugeot Partner. Odd this one because where ever you search, only 4 or 6 pin pedals come up. After a lot of image searching, squinting, comparing and scratching ones arse, I finally discovered the Chinese had it covered ;)
5 Pin FCI waterproof auto wire connector automotive electrical socket 211PC052S0081 if you are interested! I got 5 sets so if anyone is in need, drop me a PM.
20191102_082847.jpg
20191127_213857.jpg
Next up! We take a look at Damien's vid on hacking the Leaf inverter wiring. I luckily had whipped the entire harness out of the now sadly Leaf gone to Heaven and was able to strip the harness back to the vital shielded resolver/heat sensor wiring and the Gnd, Live, Ign, Can H and Can L to eventually wire up to an EVshield and Arduino DUE to begin to get my head around understanding CAN... but that's another days headache.
20191125_221441.jpg
Finally, we come to the ultimate test....
20191126_210819.jpg
Thanks again for all the pointers. Worked well. Got me a practice board, had some fun them moved onto the main VCU board. Over a few days I pieced it together, leaving the large components and the chip till last... right way wrong way I dunno. I guess I thought the practice would pay off when time to tuck into my chip came. It was all looking good. Tiny bit of solder holding 2 pins... onto the far corner, bit of paste... then well, things went bad and I ended up with a couple of pins that just wanted to curl up and die. "Hello Farnell.ie? May I have another one of your finest microcontrollers please...?". Should be here tomorrow for a 2nd attempt!

That's it for now. I plan to clean the engine bay this weekend. Remove two stubborn half shaft bolts to free the gearbox and get measuring for adapter plates.

Question for all you out there around all things EVshields and Arduinos... where do I start to understand? ANy good points of ref? Should I buy or build an EV shield and from where? And finally, I am trying to figure out the pin out for the AZD Ford Transit Connect pedal. I found the PDF wiring diagrams online but cannot make out what is what seeing as I am seeing 6 wires but the pedal has 5 pins. (https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/s ... 36594.html) Here is a snippet below.
AZDaccelerator.PNG
Thanks all. Hope to post some video up on my youtube page soon.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by NIMMOEV »

Great project Cookie6000, you are making good progress, love the vehicle choice :D
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Can you share where to get good model for 3D printing Chademo port and Plug?

tnx
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by johu »

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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by james@N52E01 »

How’s it going with the board assembly? I bought a bare board from Damien and thought it might be a pig to solder so Decided to order a pre-assembled one as well. If you need any photos of specific bits let me know. Will bring it along when we meet up at some point if it’ll be useful. I’m just now removing the last of the running gear from a scrap leaf so a bit behind where you’re at. Haven’t had to bust out the angle grinder just yet so :lol:
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

james@N52E01 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:51 pm How’s it going with the board assembly? I bought a bare board from Damien and thought it might be a pig to solder so Decided to order a pre-assembled one as well. If you need any photos of specific bits let me know. Will bring it along when we meet up at some point if it’ll be useful. I’m just now removing the last of the running gear from a scrap leaf so a bit behind where you’re at. Haven’t had to bust out the angle grinder just yet so :lol:
Busy with all things family over the Christmas so only just getting back into the build. Played around with power steering system placement and think I have that boxed off now. Board assembly just needs one or two more components then complete.

A question I have for the room is on CAN. Can anyone direct me to a Dummy's guide on why we use separate Arduino Due and EV Shield similar to the method Damien uses in testing and final build layou? What is the best way to approach this point in the build?

One other Q is, would using the Panasonic P/N AEV52012 main precharge contactor setup in the Leaf pack be wise or do as Arbor333 and Damien have done, build your main HV junction box from scratch using the Tyco Kilovac contactor EV200HAANA? Arbor333's hardware thread is great but can anyone advise on a recommended design and rating of the other components (pre charge resistor etc) to collect together to design and build with?

Thanks for your patience!
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Zapatero »

Hi, are you selling the gearbox seperately? I recently bought a GEN1 Leaf that i drive everyday but unfortunately a bearing of the gearbox is noisy. If you need the spline, i can send you mine, of course.

Cheers, Philip
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Zapatero wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:22 am Hi, are you selling the gearbox seperately? I recently bought a GEN1 Leaf that i drive everyday but unfortunately a bearing of the gearbox is noisy. If you need the spline, i can send you mine, of course.
I never took the gearbox with the entire stack, unfortunately. Wish I had! I went back and asked for the gearbox plus half shafts later and they wanted €500... no thanks. Do you think it's a bearing gone? If you do get sorted with a replacement box and have the urge to remove the shaft and associated spline I would gladly pay for it plus the shipping.

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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by doobedoobedo »

Are the gen1 and gen2 gearboxes the same?
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Zapatero »

At the moment i have an Leaf 2012 with a defective bearing in the gearbox (rattle noise under acceleration and decelleration, 4 rattles per wheel RPM). I have a 2014 Gearbox that i'm going to take apart just for the spline.

The 2012 Gearbox is visually different to the 2014 gearbox:

2013 and ongoing Gearbox
Image

2012 GEN1 Leaf Gearbox, pretty much nothing is like on the 2013 and up gearbox:
Image

So in my case i cant just swap the gearboxes and take the spline of the GEN1 gearbox. Also i'm asking myself if the spline will have the same shape on the GEN1 and GEN2 Gearbox. I'm hoping on taking both gearboxes apart and the inner part will be pretty much the same so i can swap the defective bearing of my 2012 gearbox out with one of the 2014 gearbox. But it would be easier to have the 2012 gearbox and just swap.

If i get another Gearbox of course i will sell you the spline of the defective GEN1 Gearbox :D
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Or you just read the model p/n number on the bearing and get one rated for more than 10KRPM and put the new one in. There is no guarantee the final bearing is the same in both gearboxes. It may also require different shimms to seat properly. You may cause yourself a host of problems.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Zapatero wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:59 am If i get another Gearbox of course i will sell you the spline of the defective GEN1 Gearbox :D
Sounds good! If I find a cheap gearbox closer by, I'll let you know.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by mcgousha »

Great project Fiachra, looks like you've been making swift progress. Good luck with the next steps.

There are definite differences between the gen 1 and gen 2 gearboxes. I found one of them the hard way!

It was only after making my own custom half shafts and failing to get one of them to mate with my gen 2 gearbox that I realised my donor leaf shaft was from a gen 1.

The spline pattern where the CV joint goes into the gearbox is different, the gen 1 seems to have a couple more splines than the gen 2 but is also narrower.

I don't know what other differences there are inside the box.
This seemed like a great idea at the time
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Well, been a few slow weeks scratching of head, greasing of hands, purchasing of stuff, reading of internet and probing of electrics but I feel like I am now just about to turn a corner.

First stop, gearbox. I decided to remove the petrol manual 5 speed for one from a diesel for the lower gear ratios. The 012 gearbox fitted to Audi 80's, 100's, A4's, Passats ran for over 20 years. I got one from a 1999 A4 tdi and straight away ran into an issue with the flange shafts.
20200118_161840.jpg
I found out pretty quick that the narrower collar of the stub axle from the 80 wouldn't fit. Not a biggie though as after many problem solving mugs of tea and fig rolls, I figured out that 012409343H flange shaft fitted to oodles of A4's/Passats from the early noughties have them. So, this Friday I will be mostly... running around a couple of scrappers with a vernier calipers and diy flange shaft extraction tool. As you can see, I just need to find a 108mm cup with a 38mm collar. Should have one by elevenses...
012409343H Flange Shafts.jpg
In other things mechanical, I brought the Zafira PAS pump down to my local hydraulic genius and between us, within an hour had the complete hose system boxed off. V happy with the result. Just need to mount it in the engine bay now. Big bonus with this system in all Audi 80's is, there is high pressure for the PAS and low pressure line for the brake 'bomb' boost assist. No need for electronic vac pump help. Love it.
20200115_130349.jpg
20200115_212728.jpg
Something I may have shown before but, chop chop of the Audi clutch freed the involute spline I need for the coupler. I have the option of the Fiat Multipla 1.6l clutch plate as a fallback but I have the chance to get the actual spline size of the Leaf output shaft on a CNC which I have been unsuccessful in finding. Once found, into the machine shop to get the coupler made up. With the motor and gearbox offered up, there is 40mm gap between them but there is at least 20mm I can cut off the gearbox shaft to reduce the gap for the adapter plate. Happy days.
20191202_210805.jpg
20200128_220135.jpg
On the battery side. Not yet opened the 2015 24kwh pack but was more than delighted to find out that she was happy in her slumber at 54% SOC and a healthy 93.7% still in her legs with the help of Wolftronix Packsniffer 2. Hope to put this up on my channel soon. If I am lucky, the 24 modules in the rear of the pack will stay together and fit in a battery box where the petrol tank used to live going on initial measurements.
20191221_134305.jpg
Had a big leap forward when I got a dig out on Damiens Leaf VCU board after ruining the microcontroller soldering on the 1st one. Just a little more fine detail needing completing on Mk2 and have it off with someone who does this day in day out to make sure all is good on the fine pitch Atmel ATSAM3X8E legs. Cant wait to get this back and hook it up to one of a couple of pedals I have now - from a Leaf and Ford Transit connect. Just a matter of which will fit the best in the Audi footwell.
20191201_160426.jpg
Lastly, really enjoing getting my head around all things precharge and planning my HV junction boxes and overall car design schematic. I'll post it up soon for people to pick away at it and get some feedback.
20200201_162413.jpg
Here's is the latest update from the last few weeks with more info while I waffle around the workshop. I finally feel I am on the cusp of some big moves with getting motors running on the bench, building boxes, fitting steering and running wiring through the car in preparation for the next steps.
Thanks for all the help :D
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

Fascinating update :D
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by johu »

Can you explain, why do you go through the trouble of using a Diesel transmission? Couldn't you just stick the petrol one in a higher gear?
The petrol Touran I'm converting has a six speed and its best driveable in 3rd, sluggish in 4th, let alone 5th or 6th. 2nd gives you a kick in the back and triggers traction control :)
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Exxxxxxactly the very same question I was asking myself today johu, driving to 5 breakers coming away empty handed :D
I guess it came from reading numerous threads about diesel vs petrol gearboxes, ratios, robustness, got a diesel one for next to nothing... and it was clean :P The old petrol one looks like it spent it's life under take-away extractor fan. One more check with two guys tomorrow and if it comes to nothing, it's time to admit defeat and clean the petrol 5 speed and csrry on....
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by johu »

Yes I know Damien killed numerous gear boxes with his Siemens motor that he got straight from a freakin bus :) The Leaf motor (rated 240Nm) and in fact most EV motors today are not incredibly torquey. Instead they achieve their high power density by spinning crazy fast.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Bratitude »

Cookie6000 wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:00 pm Well, been a few slow weeks scratching of head, greasing of hands, purchasing of stuff, reading of internet and probing of electrics but I feel like I am now just about to turn a corner.

First stop, gearbox. I decided to remove the petrol manual 5 speed for one from a diesel for the lower gear ratios. The 012 gearbox fitted to Audi 80's, 100's, A4's, Passats ran for over 20 years. I got one from a 1999 A4 tdi and straight away ran into an issue with the flange shafts.
20200118_161840.jpg
I found out pretty quick that the narrower collar of the stub axle from the 80 wouldn't fit. Not a biggie though as after many problem solving mugs of tea and fig rolls, I figured out that 012409343H flange shaft fitted to oodles of A4's/Passats from the early noughties have them. So, this Friday I will be mostly... running around a couple of scrappers with a vernier calipers and diy flange shaft extraction tool. As you can see, I just need to find a 108mm cup with a 38mm collar. Should have one by elevenses...
012409343H Flange Shafts.jpg
In other things mechanical, I brought the Zafira PAS pump down to my local hydraulic genius and between us, within an hour had the complete hose system boxed off. V happy with the result. Just need to mount it in the engine bay now. Big bonus with this system in all Audi 80's is, there is high pressure for the PAS and low pressure line for the brake 'bomb' boost assist. No need for electronic vac pump help. Love it.
20200115_130349.jpg
20200115_212728.jpg
Something I may have shown before but, chop chop of the Audi clutch freed the involute spline I need for the coupler. I have the option of the Fiat Multipla 1.6l clutch plate as a fallback but I have the chance to get the actual spline size of the Leaf output shaft on a CNC which I have been unsuccessful in finding. Once found, into the machine shop to get the coupler made up. With the motor and gearbox offered up, there is 40mm gap between them but there is at least 20mm I can cut off the gearbox shaft to reduce the gap for the adapter plate. Happy days.
20191202_210805.jpg
20200128_220135.jpg

On the battery side. Not yet opened the 2015 24kwh pack but was more than delighted to find out that she was happy in her slumber at 54% SOC and a healthy 93.7% still in her legs with the help of Wolftronix Packsniffer 2. Hope to put this up on my channel soon. If I am lucky, the 24 modules in the rear of the pack will stay together and fit in a battery box where the petrol tank used to live going on initial measurements.
20191221_134305.jpg

Had a big leap forward when I got a dig out on Damiens Leaf VCU board after ruining the microcontroller soldering on the 1st one. Just a little more fine detail needing completing on Mk2 and have it off with someone who does this day in day out to make sure all is good on the fine pitch Atmel ATSAM3X8E legs. Cant wait to get this back and hook it up to one of a couple of pedals I have now - from a Leaf and Ford Transit connect. Just a matter of which will fit the best in the Audi footwell.
20191201_160426.jpg

Lastly, really enjoing getting my head around all things precharge and planning my HV junction boxes and overall car design schematic. I'll post it up soon for people to pick away at it and get some feedback.
20200201_162413.jpg

Here's is the latest update from the last few weeks with more info while I waffle around the workshop. I finally feel I am on the cusp of some big moves with getting motors running on the bench, building boxes, fitting steering and running wiring through the car in preparation for the next steps.
Thanks for all the help :D

I’m almost finished with making a cad model of the leaf splines/ coupler that will match with a rotex gs38. Next few days should have it available. Thinking 3d sinter metal printing
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by damian.lo »

Hi,
Yesterday I tried to fit spline cutted by Wire Cut EDM Machine, which we little scaled from Multipla clutch disc. Was to small, so tomorrow will be second trial with lilttle bigger (means outer diameter 0,1 bigger). If will be fit, I will replace mine from Multipla to new one. Otherwise, if You will have 3d model faster, pls publish this here and I will try this ASAP and show results.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Been a few weeks since the last update. Few things have come together and milestones met.

With the gaping hole of work and testing to be done with the missing VCU board still AWOL, I pressed ahead with getting some power steering and brakes sorted. I chopped and welded the original cradle for Zafira TRW ps pump to fit snuggly into the engine bay. After a lot of back and forth, very happy with the way it sits. With the help of a local hydraulic workshop, I got some new fittings, main feed hose made up. Wired the pump up and away we go. Delighted to say the least :D . I know it's small but to be able to spin that wheel with one finger and press the solid brakes made me pretty happy. Here's the action plus some of the other updates.


Other good news arrived in the form of the once elusive 108mm flange shafts I had been after for an age. One of the members in the UK on the Audi S2 forums who has a field full of B3 and B4 Audi's had a 2.0l Cabrio he was breaking and passed these on. Gent.
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All snug where they should be in their new home. I replaced the seals too just for good measure since they were only a tenner each. Once in, I then took 20mm off the input shaft of the gearbox (Not the splines, just the narrow guide) and lined it up with the motor. A very doable ~20mm adapter plate to make up
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Was going to go the cardboard template avenue but a couple of opportunities popped up. The first was, I had the CAD bell housing and bolt pattern for the Audi 012 gearbox no issues but when it came to the bolt pattern for the Gen 1 Leaf EM61 motor, nothing I could find that was opensource on any site or forum. Plenty of later EM57 CAD models out there but have a different pattern. In stepped the chance to use a mill to measure up the x and y's to create my own so, that's where I am at. The second was, someone I know who has been following what I am at is going to waterjet cut the plate :D Happy days.
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So, in the middle of all these things going right, the mystery board reappeared from its holiday in Limerick after 5 weeks... with nothing done to it :lol: The man was just too busy and couldn't commit. I googled my socks off and as I have found during this project, places you never knew existed on your doorstep, make an appearance. I found a small outfit 20 mins away that took my board, so all that fine pitch soldering on the microcontroller I couldn't risk doing and will have it back to me next week! Good god it'll be worth the fee :lol:
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Aside from that, I also got the Olimex ESP8266, an FTDI board plus a simple development board to play with also so need to get on all that.
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Lastly, once the storms pass and I have a wind free, stress free, kid free day, I'll disassemble this bugger. I say wind free as, up on a hill here, there's a lot of friggin things knocking and rolling about in the wind as storm after storm passes through, well, you know, the more focus I have, the better!
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So. With the throttle pedal location also on the fab list, building of a HV junction box, pulling and adding of wiring, etc, etc, the next few weeks are looking good. Hope to have things going back in after a bench test and at some point before the summer, having it rolling.
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