SAAB 96 with Yaris inverter / Smart ED3 motor / LEAF 72s2p battery

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moebelschmitt
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SAAB 96 with Yaris inverter / Smart ED3 motor / LEAF 72s2p battery

Post by moebelschmitt »

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and would like to introduce myself and my project so that you and I can learn from each other. My name is Peter, born in 1981 and I live in Hamm/Westfalia. I own a small vintage vehicle collection aka MÖBELSCHMITT. When I introduce my conversion project, I first have to tell a short backstory. Originally I wanted to equip a homemade Rat Rod with the components from a crashed Smart ED3. Not street legal, but as a toy and experiment to familiarize myself with the topic of electric vehicle technology.
However, for various reasons the project did not progress beyond stripping the Smart and transplanting the components into the 'Elephant'. In addition, I wasn't able to test run it yet because the battery was missing when I bought my Smart (rental battery).

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Later, I recognized that the Smart components would fit perfectly into my 1962 SAAB 96, which I had acquired in the meantime, both technically and structurally. The SAAB 96 is small, light and aerodynamic. Vehicle specs of the Smart ED3 are very similar to the SAAB's: drive train setup, power, weight, etc.

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However, I'm actually an architect and I have only little knowledge of electrical engineering or programming. I want to make the SAAB street legal here in Germany and for that I would have to prepare everything very well. And so I developed a plan.

I'll drive double track. First, I will restore the SAAB with the two-stroke engine and bring it to the technical inspection so that it is street legal for Germany (Swedish origin). At the same time, I continue to deal with the technology from the Smart. I've already gathered a lot of information and research. But the Smart technology is not very popular among DIY builders, which probably has its reasons ... For example, I found the Illuminati Motorworks open source project Smart ED3, but they also found their limitations. Jehu Garcia also once tried to work with an ED3, but at some point its trace gets lost ...
Still, I'm optimistic (until I'm convinced otherwise). And if anyone of you have recommendations for me, I'll be very grateful.

I will keep reporting. Stay tuned!

Peter
1962 SAAB 96 electric conversion project
instagram.com/moebelschmitt
www.möbelschmitt.de
MrJo
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Re: SAAB 96 conversion with Smart ED3

Post by MrJo »

Nice project! The car looks like it is in great condition.
I drive my electric red Saab 96 1962 (that looks like it has escaped from the junkyard compared to yours) almost every day!
They are really fun to drive, even without a lot of power (I only have a “10kw bldc” motor in it.
Good luck!
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Re: SAAB 96 conversion with Smart ED3

Post by moebelschmitt »

Thanks, MrJo! My SAAB shows his choco side on this photo, but it really isn't that good. Enjoy your car!

In the meantime I have found that the Smart inverter is not suitable for modifications. Unfortunately, there are tear-off screws, glued and directly cooled components. At first I thought I might be able to use the case. But the internal geometry is complex and crisscrossed with cooling ducts. So I decided not to use this inverter. That in turn results in numerous other changes in my concept.

So, if you are curious to know what a Smart inverter A4519007502 (Continental EPF2-3) looks like from the inside and (like I) can't find any information about it on the whole wide web: This is the open inverter...

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And now? My new plan is to use the Prius Gen3 Inverter with the OpenInverter Board. The Smart's AC motor should be easy to control with this. If anyone has any recommendations or experience with it, I'd be grateful for any advice.

Have fun with your projects, guys!
1962 SAAB 96 electric conversion project
instagram.com/moebelschmitt
www.möbelschmitt.de
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Re: SAAB 96 conversion with Smart ED3

Post by johu »

"open inverter" gets a whole new meaning :)
More TriCore + FPGA madness. What is the other power module used for?

I helped someone out running a smart motor with a gen2 prius inverter, which worked well.
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Re: SAAB 96 conversion with Smart ED3

Post by moebelschmitt »

Hi, everyone!

Yes, that's what it looks like (unless I know it would be "opened inverter").
Thanks, @johu for the tip about the successful use of the Smart motor.
Was it also a Smart ED3? My Smart is a 2014 ED3.
I'll try out with the Prius Gen3 Inverter. This would also be a solution for charging on board then, right?

In addition to my previous pictures, some more photos that show the internal cooling system and the directly cooled and glued power modules. Just to be documented. Very complex and highly integrated, but they cannot be disassembled non-destructively. I mean, you cannot even disassemble the boards without breaking up components.
I think the second (small) power module belongs to the 12V DC-DC converter...? But I don't know for sure.
I got a bit lost in the tangle, especially as I realized that this inverter won't be suitable :cry: :D

Enjoy your projects, guys!

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1962 SAAB 96 electric conversion project
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Re: SAAB 96 conversion with Smart ED3

Post by moebelschmitt »

Hello everyone,

After watching Johannes's latest YouTube videos from the Audi A2 and having learned a lot again, I want to present the current status of my design for the SAAB. As I decided to not use the Smart inverter, I changed plans and found some good informations about a setup with the Toyota inverter. I stole everything myself and then drew it according to the SAAB project. Some points are still open and I have to develop solutions for them. But I'm also very interested in what you think of it.
Next step will be to get in touch with a expert at German TÜV...

Enjoy your projects, guys!

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Re: SAAB 96 conversion with Smart ED3

Post by johu »

The mixture of Prius inverter and Smart motor will require you to measure emitted radiation (as opposed to a complete EMC test). I will send you a the contact of a knowledgeable man in Hannover.
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Re: SAAB 96 conversion with Smart ED3

Post by Fenix »

Using an old two-stroke Saab is a great way to go in my opinion... I had a similiar idea but my 92 was in such good condition I'd like to restore it to original instead...

The roll resistance of these car is incredibly low, as well as the aerodynamics being great (together with a very small front area), making sure it will be a very efficient ev :)
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SAAB 96 with Smart ED3/Yaris/MEB12s2p/solar

Post by moebelschmitt »

Hi there!

After a long break, I want to give a short update on my SAAB 96 project today. To be honest, at first sight I underestimated the scope of the conversion, but I'm probably not alone with that :lol: And as the wiki says somewhere, most of us tend to be mechanical rather than electrical or IT savvy.

First I had to complete a complex and long-term restoration of my Jaguar last summer and then started with the SAAB. I'm currently working on the bodywork and at the same time I'm preparing the conversion to electric drive with the Smart ED3 motor. I bought an inexpensive Yaris/Auris inverter and the matching V2b4 logic board from Damien and Johannes. The red LEDs are already flashing at 12V, but the 5V supply is not yet working due to a shortage of part MAX735CSA (IC14). Test run has to wait.

Meanwhile, I removed the reusable components and cables from my Smart ED3: electric motor, high-voltage cables, control cables and connectors, accelerator pedal, SOC instrument, cooling hoses, pumps, fans, etc.
No fancy CAN components, but simple little helpers for the big whole.
And I decided to use the SAAB's gearbox because there are fewer interface issues than with the Smart gearbox.

Countless video evenings and forum readings later, I feel a little more knowledgeable, but reasonably capable of tackling the conversion.
For example, the wiring and control of the inverter as a buck/boost charger has not yet become entirely clear to me. I would actually like to connect solar modules (in series 160V?) directly to the inverter via boost charging. I know it's slow, but that's okay for my purposes (occasional summer car) and it is also described as a possibility in the wiki. But I haven't found an example yet of how someone has done such a setup ...
And even with my battery solution using 4x MEB 12s2p modules and a DIY BMS, I only have a vague idea so far. Yes, I know that I know nothing. But still.

Here are a few impressions from work in the process and from my workshop.

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1962 SAAB 96 electric conversion project
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Re: SAAB 96 with Yaris inverter / Smart ED3 motor / MEB 12s2p battery

Post by moebelschmitt »

Hello everyone!

After initial contact with the test engineer, I was unsure whether I should continue. The “EMV” particularly scared me. But apparently weaker rules apply to older cars (before 2002).
That's why I've researched more intensively in the last few weeks and continued to work on my plan. Maybe I'm on the wrong track. Maybe the project is beyond my technical and financial capabilities. But my curiosity and drive persist and challenge me. And I love this subversive idea of ​​the OpenInverter community and would therefore like to give back some of the knowledge and fun that I was able to experience in the countless videos from Damien, Johannes and many others by documenting my journey here.

My goal is still to convert the SAAB 96. But perhaps it makes sense to try out the whole principle on a less valuable car first and gain experience. That's why I want to first apply the plan to my small Renault Rapid/Express panel van. It was built in 1990 and is quite comparable to the SAAB in terms of size, weight and performance. I think he is the ideal candidate as a prototype.

Motor power, battery size, vehicle weight, cable lengths, installation space... The big challenge at the beginning is the lack of clarity of the data and sources, the equation with countless variables and the risk of investing time and money that will soon turn out to be a bad investment. My first idea for battery (VW MEB) would have been such.

Since I have to see things to understand them, I work graphically. But at least as important is an (honest) inventory of the performance requirements of the vehicle. Finally, the legal regulations in Germany, for example, require that the converted vehicle must be able to maintain a speed of 60 km/h on a 1 kilometer long gradient of 18%. It would be epic fail if the motor were too weak, the cables would get too hot or the battery was too heavy.

“EV Calculator” helped a lot. http://www.enginuitysystems.com/EVCalculator.htm
I calculated this in a excel:

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And as we see: the smaller, lighter, cheaper solution is unlikely to meet the requirements. :roll:
Then I linked the most important variables that influence the system in a excel:

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Then I calculated how I imagined charging. I'm putting DC fast charging on the back burner a bit, but I still want to plan for it. Solar charging is more for fun because I have the ambition (I know it’s not that easy):

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With so many components and connections, I sometimes lose track. Especially because I had to do quite a bit of online archeology if you want to learn about the Yaris inverter and how to wire up. Never found a wiring instructions for 3-phase charge input e.g.
That's why I have two large, digital sheets. A sheet with an overview of the requirements:

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... and a huge plan in which I record the connections:

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For more details:

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So, I'm currently working on the following questions. Any help is welcome :)

1. How much power loss should I expect from the Yaris inverter? 5% or rather 10% or even more?

2. Johannes explains in his Lab Update #55 that he does not use a line filter for reasons of space... But if I wanted to use one now, I would choose the 3-phase filter “FMAD-MRYB-2010” from SCHURTER, for example. However, this limits the input current to 20A, just like the coupling contactors. That would be acceptable, but are there better solutions?

3. When the 240/380V is plugged in, a relay "K1" should activate the inverter and thus close the coupling contactors. In the Wiki schema “Buck Mode Connection” there is a relay “APF30212”. Is this really a suitable relay for this purpose? If not, then which one?

4. I connect the three phases of the charging socket as follows L1-U, L2-V and L3-W. But where do I connect "Neutral" best?

5. Is the pin “CHA_AC_INPUT_RELAY” intended to control relay K6 or for K4 or which one?

6. What is the purpose of pin 27 “charger_hv_DC_request” ?

Best regards

Peter
1962 SAAB 96 electric conversion project
instagram.com/moebelschmitt
www.möbelschmitt.de
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