VW T4 with Tesla LDU

[tollerteppich]

i got the engine like that.

I haven't got a plug yet. right now I'm building a wiring harness with old plugs that I have to plug into the 23 + 4 pin connector individually.

thanks for the tip with the diode measurement I'll do that immediately.

[tollerteppich]

what looks like copper is a reflection. the bubbles are all crystal clear.

So that means if an IGBT exploded you would see copper residues? I have no comparison that's why I ask.

the readings from just let me breathe a sigh of relief and hope.

can I test something else?

to the wiring:
what is meant by "system" ground on pin 22
system ground (chassis) pin11 should be 12V ground?
Accelerator signal can it also be 5V or max 3.8V?

to the precharge resistor:
I have two really thick resistors 330ohm and 560ohm parallel that would be 200ohm. in my opinion it should go would just take longer until the capacitors are charged right?
What is the resistance used for? but only to prevent the relay contacts from burning, right?

[jon volk]

A blown Igbt in my case looked like a small explosion in the goo, black bits and all. There was also significant qty of bubbles around a bunch. What’s in your photos looks pretty normal.

[tollerteppich]

that's great to hear.

I am very careful about something that is so expensive to me.

I was so scared that the Latvian dragged me over the counter and sold me junk. that's good to hear that everything looks fine.

I hardly slept last night because of it.

[arber333]

I hardly slept last night because of it.

Everything is not lost even if your inverter is damaged. Motor should still run and you can get a different inverter to run it. Like Volt/Ampera or BMW I3 or even Prius. It should run fine on other IGBTs... Not as good as with OEM but still good enough for you to convert the car and wait on another drop in Tesla drive...

[jon volk]

Just make sure you do initial testing at lower voltage like 100vdc to verify function. It’s marginally more forgiving than slamming it with the full 400.

[FJ3422]

what is the best way to go about checking the functionality?
test with low voltage i seen. witch voltage is good for save begin ?

I have the following power supplies available:
0-15V 40A
12V 40A
24V 40A
56V? 60A?
Model3 battery 96V

Don't use a lab-powersupply. A bit of regen would swing the voltage up and destroy it.
I successfully tested my LDU on 36V of lead-acid batteries. Put a fuse of some 20-30A in series and nothing can happen. (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76&p=21002#p21002)

[tollerteppich]

Just make sure you do initial testing at lower voltage like 100vdc to verify function. It’s marginally more forgiving than stalling it with the full 400.

At moment i have only the one 25s and 6s Model3 Pack. I still have to save a lot to get a complete Model 3 battery.

what is the best way to go about checking the functionality?
test with low voltage i seen. witch voltage is good for save begin ?

I have the following power supplies available:
0-15V 40A
12V 40A
24V 40A
56V? 60A?
Model3 battery 96V

Don't use a lab-powersupply. A bit of regen would swing the voltage up and destroy it.
I successfully tested my LDU on 36V of lead-acid batteries. Put a fuse of some 20-30A in series and nothing can happen. (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76&p=21002#p21002)

Ok, thank you for the tip. I think I'll take the 6s Model3 Pack with ~ 24V. if that works then the 96V from the 25s pack. or are 24V not enough?

i have a few questions about my wiring diagram.

1. How long is the time between Pin3 on and Pin 6 on? (Pre Charge Time)

2. Is my GND wiring ok? I'm not sure !

3. Does the accelerator work with 0.35-4.5V? Or does it have to have 0-3.8V?

4. Is my 12V wiring ok? There were several options in the V4b documents.

5. A or B ? I couldn't find any numbers on the plug.

[Boxster EV]

Pre-charge will remain 'live' IE pre-charge contactor closed if HV is present. It will then open when you pull pin 23 high to close main + contactor.

Everything you need to know re the wiring is on page one of the LDU support thread.

You could power the drive unit for testing with a four 12v car batteries in series.

The accelerator will work fine. You will just need to go through calibration proceedure

[Boxster EV]

[tollerteppich]

Pre-charge will remain 'live' IE pre-charge contactor closed if HV is present. It will then open when you pull pin 23 high to close main + contactor.

OK, thank you for the information. and the main relay goes off again when pin1 goes low or is it different? so a self-holding.

Everything you need to know re the wiring is on page one of the LDU support thread.

unfortunately all of this is not clear. I am an electrician and not a bad one! circuit diagrams must be clear and not lead to more questions due to different labels or contradicting wiring.
a circuit diagram should provide answers.

If there is System Ground (Chassis) on Pin11 and System Ground on Pin 22, for me these are two different potentials that can lead to damage when connected.

The same is true if in the one circuit diagram Pin1 with Pin7, 8, 21 and 23 have the same potential. And in the next circuit diagram Pin 1 is listed with + 12V from the other Seperat, which in turn are labeled with + rv.

and if there is pin 13 (0-3.8V) it is not clear that you can also add 4.5V.

Likewise with the encoder in the LDU thread is under the connector gender. what gender male or female?

so if I connect that somehow and due to + and - swap what is then? encoder broken? circuit board broken? inverter broken?

connect to your B- + and to B + -, what happens then.

do you think I'm asking questions just for fun?

I ask questions because there are uncertainties and I am a little cautious with over 3000 €.

it's so frustrating for me because I'm just not getting anywhere.

believe me it's no fun to fight for every little piece of information here. it is soooo frustrating to have to justify yourself for legitimate questions.

I really appreciate that you take the time here to help me.

[Isaac96]

Pin 13 can take +5v, the 0-3.8 is probably for a specific pedal from somebody's vehicle.
+rv is a typo for +12v, hope whoever owns that pic can fix it and reupload.

Grounds are all the same, not sure why they're labeled differently... maybe that's left over from Tesla's circuit diagrams.

I think your encoder scheme 'a' is correct. But I have not built with an LDU...

[johu]

Please also keep in mind that openinverter is a community, not a company with payed employees. All your questions are perfectly valid, but have been asked many times. People then promise that they will feed back the answers they obtained to the community by using the wiki, but this is the result: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Tesla_Mod ... %22LDU%22) . It's a bad example, it works much better for other products.

So please also understand a certain unwillingness of senior members to answer the same question again in every project thread because nobody can bothered to compile information to the apparent wiki page.

Now, since all boards are based around the same basic hardware and the same software, a lot of generic information can be obtained from this page: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Main_Board_Version_3

For example you will find there, that the input voltage for the throttle is really 0-3.3V and that the input impedance is 10k. So if you add 10k in series with your throttle you will divide down its output by factor 0.5. Most throttles range from 0.8-4.2V. I always chose to ignore the travel from 3.3-4.2V and yes the input is protected to some degree and will be fine with voltages up to 5V.

If you want to help making Tesla swaps easier, please consider extending the wiki.

[Boxster EV]

I can understand your frustration. Okay, let's work on the 23 connector first.

Pin 1: This input should be brought 12v high when you turn your key to the 'ignition on' position.

Pin 7 and 8: These inputs are your direction switches. So whatever one is brought 12v high (via your shift selector), it will tell the LDU to engage that direction (forward or reverse). I have two small micro switches on my stock auto shifter to bring the desired direction high.

Pin 23: Input should be from the 'ignition start signal'. IE In old terms this is what would've sent power signal to your starter motor.

For the HV contactors:

The +12v of all three contactors should be connected to the 'ignition on' position. In my conversion I have a small power distribution board with fuses that is powered up upon 'ignition on'. I feed everything from there.

The -12v of the main negative contactor can be connected to ground

The -12v of the main positive contactor should be connected to Pin 6

The -12v of the precharge contactor should be connected to Pin 3

[tollerteppich]

Pin 13 can take +5v, the 0-3.8 is probably for a specific pedal from somebody's vehicle.
+rv is a typo for +12v, hope whoever owns that pic can fix it and reupload.

Grounds are all the same, not sure why they're labeled differently... maybe that's left over from Tesla's circuit diagrams.

I think your encoder scheme 'a' is correct. But I have not built with an LDU...

Isaac many thanks for the info, I almost thought it would be 12v + and ground but since it wasn't clear I was unsure. you don't want to break anything.

Please also keep in mind that openinverter is a community, not a company with payed employees. All your questions are perfectly valid, but have been asked many times. People then promise that they will feed back the answers they obtained to the community by using the wiki, but this is the result: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Tesla_Mod ... %22LDU%22) . It's a bad example, it works much better for other products.

That I know d, I am also willing to make my contribution to the comunity. I could, for example, the circuit diagram revise to eliminate the little mistakes. and possibly collect the information but I have to understand everything myself first

Do you need separate access for the wiki?

Thank you for the info with the 10K impedance and the 0-3.3V.

It is admittedly very hard to read through and understand 425 posts (i am today on page 5), then to have incomplete circuit diagrams and besides my 3 year old daughter wants to play with dad and then repair something here and there. it is very much for a brain but i try!

I can understand your frustration. Okay, let's work on the 23 connector first.

We don't need to continue at this point isaac has already answered the questions.
that with the relays is clear, but for testing purposes I leave out the negative relay which is controlled by the ignition.

only the encoder plug is still unclear to me.

Where I came across a drawing and think it is Shema B.

So in the LDU thread it seems to be the female plug and not the male socket on the motor.

Website https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/te- ... 68313.html
PDF https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDel ... Format=pdf

I think I have all the information for the wiring together.

and can now devote myself to the initial start-up

[johu]

That I know d, I am also willing to make my contribution to the comunity. I could, for example, the circuit diagram revise to eliminate the little mistakes. and possibly collect the information but I have to understand everything myself first

Do you need separate access for the wiki?

That would be superb if you just add it to the linked page.
Wiki access is via same username/password as the forum, in theory at least. Wiki doesn't like some special characters (don't know which ones though) in username or password. Your username should definitely be ok

[tollerteppich]

So it turns but whether everything is as it should be I can not judge.

see for yourself in the video. What dou you think ?


When starting up, the motor swings back and forth, which I know from BLDC motors in RC aircraft without encoder.

At the beginning I had the feeling that it didn't want to start and turned A and B on the encoder, but I also didn't give a lot of gas before turning.

I set the potmin value to 416 and potmax 4095.

The newly designed Lithium-Acid Battery has a Voltage of around 47V.

[johu]

I think it sounds good. The rattle should be less pronounced once it drives a load.

[tollerteppich]

Hello

I wanted to keep you up to date about my conversion.

First I disassembled the front axle because everything was badly rusted.

Then I sandblasted all parts, passivated with phosphoric acid, sandblasted again, primed and painted 4 layers of 2K paint.

I got a dozer to straighten the body.

Today I made the brackets for the engine. Unfortunately, the side bracket with the rubber bearing is missing on the engine. I still have to think of something.

At the front holder, there are reinforcements and holders for the electrical box / s.

It's really a lot of work. It is actually a restoration and electrical conversion together.

Due to my constant lack of money, I am constantly improvising. The blue color, for example, was actually intended for the blue VW Bus

Now at the beginning of the next week I have to get rubber bearings for the axle to see how it fits with the drive shafts. I may have to make changes.

[johu]

Good progress. Looks a bit like you slaughtered an animal and a drying its bones What will the green pole on the motor attach to?

BTW do you mind if I rename your thread to "VW T4 with Tesla LDU" and move it under projects?

[muehlpower]

was the car not silver in the beginning? now it's red!

[tollerteppich]

Good progress. Looks a bit like you slaughtered an animal and a drying its bones What will the green pole on the motor attach to?

BTW do you mind if I rename your thread to "VW T4 with Tesla LDU" and move it under projects?

Yes, I ripped out their entrails: D

The green pipe is only the bracket for the motor stand so that I can drive it from the garage to the yard to the crane and back.

You are welcome to do that with the thread, I wanted to ask the whole time

was the car not silver in the beginning? now it's red!

can you tell me what kind of o-rings and spring washers are attached to the Tesla Motor Cables? or where I can get the information.

That's right. the trend is towards the 2nd and 3rd bulli

I have a 1995 Red Transporter with engine failure, the front axle comes from that is the large 16 "chassis of the 2.5L TDI 151PS AXG engine from a 2001 MV. The bus has a kitchen cupboard bed tv pc heating but only 3 seats.

Then I bought a 2001 Caravelle because of the more seats. It is also a 2.5L TDI but with the smallest engine variant AJT 88PS that runs great and has 570,000km on the clock. The transmission will be due in the near future. Currently my dayly driver but it should be replaced by number 3.

No. 3 is also a 2001, but a Multivan Highline with full equipment. I got it for 2k € (heal 12k € +) and it is now being repaired with healing parts from the red bus (front axle, longitudinal beams, various small parts, etc.)

The red one is slaughtered after the renovation.
and supplies the silver one with an engine and two gearboxes for the blue one as spare parts. 1500km to the south of france doesn't work so well electrically yet. the silver highline as dayly.




I know every screw on the T4 by its first name the red bus was my first and I hope the silver one will be my last accordingly I am restoring the bus at the same time.

yesterday i pressed in all the rubber bearings and joints.
tomorrow I will sandblast and paint the axle beam. then i can assemble the front axle.
and then I'll see if and how the drive shafts fit. this is still my biggest concern ...

but what does not fit is made to fit

then i will straighten the silver bus with the dozer and then weld in and paint new parts. and vw and tesla are married.

a lot of work but the way is the goal, and the batteries are then also cheaper and cheaper until i'm ready

[DIYMicha]

Nice project. I'll take a peek for my T4 conversion. I noticed you put the motor in the other way around than it is mounted in a tesla. In this case it will run constantly in backwards mode. Isn't that a problem for the differencial?

[tollerteppich]

Nice project. I'll take a peek for my T4 conversion. I noticed you put the motor in the other way around than it is mounted in a tesla. In this case it will run constantly in backwards mode. Isn't that a problem for the differencial?

Yes, that's right, the engine is installed backwards. This is done by replacing the oil pump housing with the one from Zero EV. I mean that the bearings work differently due to the axial forces caused by the helical gearing. But I think if you operate a gear that is designed for 600Nm with a maximum of 300Nm (maximum VW bus) you have enough safety margin. you would have to calculate it exactly that will not be possible for us simple people;)



I had some time again to continue working on the project. Now the straightening of the body was on the plan.

At first I pulled the beam with a 1.5 ton chain hoist. This direction alone was not enough. i then fetched my excavator, dismantled the arm, and welded a massive bracket around the beam and attached the hydraulic cylinder to it.

the whole fun lasted a day the straight pulling 30min ...

Most of the time is spent building tools ... XD

After that, a lot of sheet metal had to be straightened. that didn't turn out perfect, but it doesn't matter about the substructure either. the upper sheets must be free of dents so that the sight is fluid.

now only minor bending work has to be done and a few welding points. and then it can be painted and then the windshield in, then the car is waterproof again.

and then the e-conversion starts, the bus is then made rollable again by assembling the front axle.

to do this, all the screws have to be electroplated.

a lot of work but piece by piece it is progressing.

Best wishes
Alex

[folkers]

New to the forum , and also have a T4 which I’ll be looking to convert. Going to be researching for a while first and I’ll be watching this with interest.