The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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Jack Bauer
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by Jack Bauer »

Folks I'd just like to announce that due to impending life changes for me this project has been handed off to forum member paaa who will be continuing the build and updating the thread.
I'm going to need a hacksaw
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by mdrobnak »

Damn. Totally understood though. At least someone will be picking up the torch! Best of luck, Damien.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

I will be keeping everyone updated on whats going on, Current plans involve fitting the front battery box Damien built and getting the johannes's bms setup. Once that complete I will be fitting the CCS port in place where fuel filler lived. Then its onto rear battery pack.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by LRBen »

paaa wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:03 pm I will be keeping everyone updated on whats going on, Current plans involve fitting the front battery box Damien built and getting the johannes's bms setup. Once that complete I will be fitting the CCS port in place where fuel filler lived. Then its onto rear battery pack.
Good to hear. I'm very interested to see how you get on with the BMS setup. I have the same Kokam cells and I'm planning to use the same BMS setup as well.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

Today I got some time to work on the battery box in the rear. One of the packs seemed to have a large voltage sag when loaded. I checked through the cells and found a few dead or swelling cells. Bad cells were removed and replaced with some spares. Next task is to work on a new battery box for the rear and get the bms parts for the rear cells.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by LRBen »

I found the same thing with my Kokam modules that were packaged loose on the pallet. I was hoping the cells in the box would be in better condition. Not to worry, I have spares as well.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by arber333 »

LRBen wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:47 am I found the same thing with my Kokam modules that were packaged loose on the pallet. I was hoping the cells in the box would be in better condition. Not to worry, I have spares as well.
Me too. I have my Kokams wrapped tightly in stack of 8s and laid on the flat side. Someone knowledgable suggested this to me because electrolyte in LiPo is supposed to be in gel form and after long use in vertical position it could flow down and cause lack of it near the tabs where cell could start to overheat and dry up. Then it can die suddenly...

But Kokam have some strange protection mechanism it seems. They have copper dust between layers and in case if layers overheat that dust solidifies it creates a direct path from one tab to the other in effect taking the cell out of the pack.
Same thing happened to me last year. I was driving my Pug at 130km/h with Kokam pack at 96S and i heared a loud bang from the back. But my car still had power! Of course it smelled of solvent... There was significant voltage drop in the system. But i could get home still 30km away :).
Later i opened the rear box. :shock: I saw one cell blew out and melted into the other. But both of them had a straight current path through the tabs.
Good safety feature!
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by LRBen »

arber333 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:30 am Me too. I have my Kokams wrapped tightly in stack of 8s and laid on the flat side. Someone knowledgable suggested this to me because electrolyte in LiPo is supposed to be in gel form and after long use in vertical position it could flow down and cause lack of it near the tabs where cell could start to overheat and dry up. Then it can die suddenly...
That's interesting to hear. So we should probably aim to store/use these cells on their flat sides then? I'm just starting battery box design(its not design, its deciding how big a box it will be) now and it was going to just be 8 modules vertical in two rows. Might think about changing that up a bit now.
Were your cells vertical when that one popped?
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

Interesting , was wondering about the vertical mounting especially without cell containment. I am contemplating making a 3d printed spacers for packing cells that can be joined together and provide some support for the cells and would make it easier to fix them within battery boxes.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by LRBen »

That could be a good idea. I was just going to have them pretty close together as per the original boxes they came in, Maybe use expanding foam as well if there is any excess space. My idea was to try and make the battery boxes with minimal modification to the modules.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Since I'm not a car person and don't know the BWM nomenclature from numerical soup, I've always had trouble telling what project of Damien's was focused on doing what. I tell them apart by color more than anything.

I went to the front page of the thread and it didn't really summarize.

So I went back to the video playlist:

"A lot of your guys are saying 'No Damien, not another EV project, you need to finish the ones you currently have' Yes, true. I do have a lot of projects going on. But when is the best time to start a project? When you already have too many projects going on. So..."

"This is going to be an interactive EV conversion project where you get to make suggestions which I will then ignore and proceed to do it my way anyway. But at least I will give the false impression that I would listen"

It was planned to be a 7-day build, done somewhat-live.

It started as the Inova motor and inverter. And it was to be direct drive, with the E65 being the worst case for direct drive, big and heavy.

The Inova was so terrible, it gave Damien a heart attack (maybe a combination of factors but it certainly didn't help).

Then, at some point the Inova gets torn out like defective arteries, and it becomes what I think is the original GS450H testbed project (at the start of this thread). A heavier vehicle, reverse engineering the GS450H as a more powerful RWD drivetrain, etc. And this is what led to all the GS450H development?

In which case, it's a great success that doesn't actually need a finished vehicle, as the lessons learn all apply whether it's buttoned up or not.

We learned:
- The gearbox can have its input shaft welded and use both MG1 and MG2 inverters.
- It's possible to repurpose the GS450H inverter with some extensive reverse engineering.
- The GS450H is great at powering RWD vehicles, it has no struggles powering a vehicle at highway speeds.
- That Toyota inverters don't need the boost converter or full voltage to run, even at highway speeds. 750v is not needed.
- Some GS450H VCU stuff.
- Johannes' BMS boards seem to work fine (?)

I miss anything?

(I'm going to do this slowly with the rest of Damien's projects, if people find this interesting).
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

Did some work on 3d printing modular battery spacers/ cases that snap together and then can be be bolted together and keeps cells fixed in place an make them, easily mounted. Once I have them fully tested and figured out I will share them for anyone else with ease cells.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by arber333 »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:31 pm
I went to the front page of the thread and it didn't really summarize.

(I'm going to do this slowly with the rest of Damien's projects, if people find this interesting).
Well done, i think we missed the notion of summary with all this development work. Sometimes it is difficult to spot a particular tree in a forest 😁.
Can you also post your findings at the beginning (or end) of the particular wiki chapter? That would be great.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by LRBen »

paaa wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:18 pm Did some work on 3d printing modular battery spacers/ cases that snap together and then can be be bolted together and keeps cells fixed in place an make them, easily mounted. Once I have them fully tested and figured out I will share them for anyone else with ease cells.
That would be great!
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

arber333 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:19 amWell done, i think we missed the notion of summary with all this development work. Sometimes it is difficult to spot a particular tree in a forest 😁.
I also did one for the Red Arrow project, in much, much more detail, on the DIY EV forums when someone suggested it was not actually possible to make a $1000 car. I said that Damien had, including the cost of the car. Then someone said that's maybe not fair because Damien is Damien, and he has parts laying around and he has good contacts to get special rates.

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... st-1070399

So then I went on a deep dive through the series to see whether that was true (for convenience, yes, he used parts he had, but he accounted for market value of those parts), and so on. That series as Damien later described, made itself obsolete as the meta for cheap DIY EVs evolved right out from under it in the middle of the project (due, mostly, to Damien himself finding better ways of doing things, i.e. Toyota inverters). And, as usual, life and health and all that got in the way, so the last 50% of the build isn't really documented.

Anyway, if anyone's curious, take a scroll through the thread I linked.

The strongest part of Damien's projects (aside from doing what no one has done before), are showing what's currently being done. But the weakest part of Damien's projects is the documentation of them in a way that the people they're targeted to could use. After the project's done, it's not as good at being accessible or imitable. The information isn't collimated, it's not dumbed down, it's not presented as a beginning to end, there's usually no overview or summary. But in the open-source spirit, that's on the rest of us, because we should be doing the documentation as much as possible, he's already doing the actual work. If I could be a better bridge, I would, but I think a lot of it goes over my head still and bad advice is worse than no advice.
Can you also post your findings at the beginning (or end) of the particular wiki chapter? That would be great.
Today I noticed: the wiki isn't linked on the main openinverter page. Couldn't find it anywhere. Including in the purchase pages for things, where the wiki would be a big portion of the documentation. (Nor are specific threads linked, it just links generically to the forum). To a beginner, this is going to lose them between the cracks.

I do now notice it's linked here, at the top of the forums. Does the E65 Bexus have it's own wiki page? Where should I post?
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

I don't think there is a wiki for it ,I can help with story if needed and can get you some pictures to go along with it to help explain stuff seen as I have access to the car.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by ZooKeeper »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:38 pm
The strongest part of Damien's projects (aside from doing what no one has done before), are showing what's currently being done. But the weakest part of Damien's projects is the documentation of them in a way that the people they're targeted to could use. After the project's done, it's not as good at being accessible or imitable. The information isn't collimated, it's not dumbed down, it's not presented as a beginning to end, there's usually no overview or summary. But in the open-source spirit, that's on the rest of us, because we should be doing the documentation as much as possible, he's already doing the actual work. If I could be a better bridge, I would, but I think a lot of it goes over my head still and bad advice is worse than no advice.
For those not involved in the mechanical trades, I would generally agree. However, for those of us who are, Damien's documentation is more than we need to realize what the possibilities are and he is THE reason I began my project; when many told me it was not possible.

FFD about a year and I have a fully functioning EV system based on Toyota HSD parts that are just waiting for the damned car to arrive.

Granted, had I not done some basic homework, found this forum and struggled thru the various board options, I would not be this far along. As I have said before, it is the JOURNEY of learning and doing I am interested in, not simply attaining the final result.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by arber333 »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:31 pm We learned:
- The gearbox can have its input shaft welded and use both MG1 and MG2 inverters.
- It's possible to repurpose the GS450H inverter with some extensive reverse engineering.
- The GS450H is great at powering RWD vehicles, it has no struggles powering a vehicle at highway speeds.
- That Toyota inverters don't need the boost converter or full voltage to run, even at highway speeds. 750v is not needed.
- Some GS450H VCU stuff.
- Johannes' BMS boards seem to work fine (?)

I miss anything?
I thought of a question i didnt found asked here, or at least i missed it inside GS450H support thread... would it be possible to use GS450H inverter to run either Leaf or Outlander motor, or for that matter any other motor not Toyota branded? I am thinking of inverter using the Zombiverter or SAM3X control board running on the outside? Up to now i have seen only talk about Toyota/Lexus motors with inverters aside of Gen2/Gen3 Prius replacement boards.

tnx

A
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

Hi arber not sure but think it was asked else where in Toyota hardware forum. If I find link ill pm it to you.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

Been very short on time thanks to work and home commitments, but have some time off soon and hoping to make good progress. I have been working through small jobs that need to be done for the NCT(national car test). This consisted of fixing headlight adjustment motor and aiming, solving the airbag and brake wear errors along with a few small bits of trim tidying. I got myself a new diag cable to work with INPA to get the errors sorted. I have also been going through the kokam cells and trying to remove any bulging cells. Next task is to start building battery box to accommodate the rear pack where fuel tank previously lived.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by slanceley »

LRBen wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:10 pm
paaa wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:18 pm Did some work on 3d printing modular battery spacers/ cases that snap together and then can be be bolted together and keeps cells fixed in place an make them, easily mounted. Once I have them fully tested and figured out I will share them for anyone else with ease cells.
That would be great!
I would also love to hear more about your battery spacers/cases as I bought 4 modules of similar Kokam cells, just have been too afraid to touch them so far! I'll watch with bated breath.

Mine feature the 40Ah cells not the 53Ah cells, but they've been cased up exactly like JackBauer/paaa's...
viewtopic.php?p=19785#p19785
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

Does anyone on this thread have any kokam cells they are willing to sell.Currently I need 20 or 30 to finish rear pack due to finding a large number bulging in the fibreglass box. You can reply here or pm me. Thanks
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by LRBen »

Messaged you I think. I ended up with twice as many as I'm going to use. What percentage of bad cells did you get?
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by paaa »

For rear two boxes , I seem to have 20ish bloating or starting to bloated. That means about 20% bad.Admitedly one cell bank sagged substantially and tanked a few others.
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Re: The SuperYacht BMW E65 7 Series

Post by celeron55 »

My experience with pouch cells in RC equipment is they'll almost certainly swell when stored at above 4.0V or so. Is that the case for these also?
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